Scribe

And then I was like, is this good enough? And I was like, what's good enough?

Hey, guys.

That was a big night for me. I. I think I ate the largest amount of Swiss cheese that I had ever eaten in my entire life because Chris of right notepads had gone to Costco and the dude loves a deal. Love this huge hunk of cheese. And I may or may not have eaten my fill for like the entire, you know, for my entire life.

Yeah, fun fact.

Yeah, that was. That was one of the best, I think one of the best pen show parties I've ever been to. And speaking of the guitars, fun fact. Chris's brother was in a bunch of really cool noise and punk bands that I knew growing up in Baltimore. And recently I was playing a record that I had gotten at. I think it was at probably a celebrated summer in like Baltimore. And it was Auxiliary Mammals, great noise band from Baltimore. And then I was like, like, wait a minute, I think Chris's brother was in this. And I, I texted Chris like a couple. This is maybe like a month ago at this point now. And he was like, yep, my brother was in that band. I was like, dude, that's crazy. He was in another band. Human Host. So that music connection to that, to Chris and to pens and all that thing, it's all one. It's just one big circle. There's no Venn diagram.

They're sick. They're really cool. Fun lesson.

Awesome.

Yeah, that's a, that's a good, that's a good, A good question, I think. Well, you know, I've always liked making things. I was a big skateboarder growing up. I was big into the DIY music scene. So everything seemed very much like, if you want to do it, go do it. You know, that was like kind of the vibe I was picking up from growing up in Baltimore. And yeah, I felt very empowered by that energy of like people organizing, making flyers. I used to make my own messenger bags. I teach a class on how to make messenger bags. I distribute templates to people. I made like little instruction sets. I got really into making chain mail when I was in high school. This is all. And I, you know, it's funny, I was, I, I have a bunch of chain mail with me in my office here because I took it out from my parents house, but really into chain mail jewelry, really into skateboarding, selling chain mail and using it to pay for my band's tour and stuff like that. And I don't know, just like it was, it was a fun time of like being a young maker in my, like teens. And then I, I wanted to go to college to be an engineer because I thought engineers like make stuff. And boy, was I like, wrong about that assumption. Engineers do make things, but it's not a straightforward path from engineering in school to making things. So I found myself in engineering school, you know, when I was 19, 18, 20, whatever, 21, I was like, I need to make stuff. So I found myself working in some maker spaces, tinkering, machining things, learning about different tools, learning about different, like, ways to make things, just like kind of improving my maker background ground while I was getting a degree in, you know, mechanical and manufacturing engineering, which like, gave me a bunch of, I don't know, I guess the ability to think and the ability to calculate a bunch of stuff that I was never gonna do. But. But yeah, I basically, like, throughout my college education, was always supplementing my coursework with making physical things. And one of those things that I started making was pension, because I noticed early on that it's like a show, don't tell kind of thing. In, like, the real world. People don't want to hear about how you're going to, like, help them solve their challenges. They want to see examples of how you've done it before. And they'd be like, oh, that's. That's similar work. So I wanted to build a really good portfolio, and my friend Mike had this cool machined brass, like, embassy pen, I think it was called, and he got it from a clothing store down the road, and it was made in America. And I was like, wow, this is cool. So I was like, maybe I could make my own, like, modular ballpoint. I had, like, this whole design, and I started making it, and it evolved, and it became, like, the first pen that I launched on Kickstarter in, like, 2012. It was a ballpoint pen. Yeah. And my. You know, before the Kickstarter, I didn't really have any thoughts of commercializing it or starting a business, but I was just like, oh, I'll make this pen and I'll bring it to companies I want to work for and be like, hey, I made this. Let me talk about the design process. Let me talk about how I machined it, my approach. Um, and then that kind of evolved into a little bit of a business, because the internship I was at, which I got by bringing bicycle frames that I had welded and the hub that I had machined for my bike, and I brought the pan, and I brought some, like, 3D printed stuff, and they gave me the job. Those guys were like, really? They were called Direct Dimensions. They were in Baltimore, and they were. They really encouraged me to do a Kickstarter because it was like, 2011, and it was like, Kickstarter popping off.

So they said, just do a Kickstarter, and I did one. And that was, like, the first commercialized thing that I had done. And I sold a bunch of pens, and I just started making more and more pens and then thinking, like, what if I had a small business? What if I didn't get a job? I was working my day job as a product design engineer, helping people design products, and I was, like, really, really excited about working for these clients and learning about new manufacturing techniques like injection molding and about, like, casting and all these things. I didn't have access to as, like a maker. You know, these are. These are big manufacturing things that you can't just be like, oh, let me cut an injection molded tool for $50,000 for my hobby. Like, no way. So I worked for a product development firm in Boston after finishing my degree in Boston. And nights and weekends I'd make pens. And that. That was like the. The start of it. And I just kept like, tinkering until. Until I guess I ran into somebody at an. I think it was probably an American field. I was doing these, like, American made, like, trade shows where, like, crafts people would show up with, like, leather and cute hats and, like, backpacks and stuff. And I had my pens and someone was like, oh, you should come to a pen show. And I was like, I don't make fountain pens. I don't. I'm gonna get laughed out of the room. I was, like, so intimidated by fountain pen shows, which is fair. Fountain pen shows can be really intimidating. Less so now. It's, like, pretty. It's. It's like, warmed up a little bit for me, but personally, but. But yeah, like, I was so intimidated to go a fountain pen show, but I think one of my customers convinced me to go. And once I went to a fountain pen show, everyone was like, oh, we see what you can do with these ballpoints, with the colors, with how you machine stuff, like you need to make a fountain pen. And I just, like, started my design journey there, which is kind of a long story. I'm not sure if I should go into it. I'm happy to, but, you know, we'll

Cool.

Yeah, but that's. That's the gist. That's the short version. That's cool. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, space pen. They had a little brass set screw in the back that, like, held the ink in. I had like, a set screw obsession for a while. I, like, really wanted to design a product with a set screw. I don't. I don't know why.

Yeah, it was a big set screw era for me. It's crazy.

Yeah, that's cool. I appreciate that. Yeah. So making the jump, I looked at. At first, people were like, just put a nib in the pen you have. And so I took my pen, and I. You know, I had prototypes at this point. Or I had. Sorry. I had production at this point. I had lots of parts because I was selling them. I had a contract manufacturer making them. But I still have my manual tools. Because I couldn't make thousands of pens. I didn't have a production facility. I had my day job, and I was making these pens. But I basically, like, took a pen and, like, cut the front off and, like, drilled it out and like, put a number five nib in, which is, like, the same size nib as a Kaweco Sport. And I looked at it, and I was like, is this enough? You know, And I was, like, really, like, torturing myself being like, this doesn't feel, like enough. It's not, like, good. And I was like, well, what's, like, missing in the room? So I was. I'd been to this fountain pen show, and people were really kind. Like, I specifically remember, like, I was next to Joshua Lacks, who's a nib grinder. He was showing me pens he was working on. He was teaching me about fountain pens when he didn't have appointments. And A. Reinhardt brought to me, like, this awesome desk pen that she loved, and she, like, showed me that pen. Brad Dowdy was there. He showed me, like, a bunch of pens that he had bought. And, like, people, like, took me around the room and basically showed me, like, the ecosystem and the landscape. And I was like, oh, I noticed there was not a lot of pocket pens. So I was like, okay, there's a good opportunity for me to do my thing with pocket pens that would be different from everyone else's in metal. Cause I'm personally, like, I really like to do my own thing almost to a fault. Like, I really want to be in my own lane just because I don't, like. I don't know, just for me Personally, as an artist, I don't like being derivative of other people's work, which is hard because fountain pens have been around for a really long time.

But what hadn't been around was I noticed in the community, people were getting nibs ground and taking them out of one pen and putting them into another pen, and there were nib swapping and they were like, oh, I love this pen because I can put this nib or this nib into it or I need to find a home for this nib. And I was like, oh, my God, I need to make a pocket size for a number six, a bigger nib. And I'll like. It'll be a home for all those nibs, and it'll be part of the community ecosystem that already exists that I just learned about. So I made this pen called the Pocket six, which, like, was, you know, the cap still screwed off the front and posted on the back with a. Just like my ballpoints. But it was all tuned for that number six nib and a cartridge. So that was my first foray into fountain pens. And thankfully it went pretty. It went pretty well.

It was crazy. And like, at the time, like, in the background of, like, the Pocket 6 development, between 2017 and 2019, I had quit my job, so I left my product development career. I was at a good firm at the time. I was at IDO Product Development, which was like, in my mind, like a top firm. And I like, really? Yeah, design thinking and I mean, that taught me a lot. There's a lot I could go into a lot about design thinking and ideas process there, and it was really good for my journey. But you, you know, I. I was at, like, where I thought would be the top of my career, but I. I needed something else. So I left my job to just make pens and make watches and make other things I'd been interested in. But I decided that I was going to buy my production equipment to do my own production in house, which was, like a big leap. So I started that research in 2017, and by the time 2018 rolled around, I had purchased my first lathe, like, big production lathe, and I had slated to move to Philadelphia to open a bigger workshop. My partner, thankfully, at the time, was very supportive, and we. We both moved to Philadelphia together. We were married, so that was nice. And yeah, I had this big production lathe and doing the Pocket 6 development in front of the machine instead of just like at the computer, like, really changed the game for me because much like, that initial pen that I was, like, thinking about what drill and how deep I could drill to do all those things. Like, I was really playing with the manufacturer durability and, like, how thin could I make the walls? How does it feel to screw the cap on? Does it feel like it's catching? Does it feel good? How are those angles? Like, and that. That piece of the puzzle, I think, is what really resonated with the community, is, like, the care with which I produced the Pocket 6. All those details felt really, really nice, which is hard to do. And I think a lot of our makers in the community, like. Like, it almost seems obvious that most of the pens would work and work really well, but, like, it's so hard to get there. Like, oh, yeah, of course it works perfectly. Of course the cap goes on great, and it feels great in my hand. Like, makers are really, really pouring themselves into this. So kudos to the makers. Shout out to the makers.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

That's a really good question. There's a lot of hurdles that I didn't necessarily know about until I got in front of the production equipment. But I was noticing, like, remnants of. In the parts that were being manufactured for me. So I'll explain. Like, every once in a while, the pens would have these crazy dents in them. When I get them back from manufacturing, I was like, whoa, how did this dent get here? Oh, why is it. Why is it so consistent? Why do 50 pens have this crazy dent? And why do those ones have the cap go on? Kind of wonky. They're not as, like, concentric, and I Was like, what's up with these? And I. I would scrap them, sadly. But I was, like, always curious. And then once I got in front of my machine and I started doing the coding, right, like, not just picking the tools, picking the strategy. Like, okay, this type of tool with this angle and type of radius of the tip of it, is going to turn this area, and then this grooving tool is going to groove this area, and the threading tool is going to thread this area. And then I'm going to do a wiper turn and a back turn. Then this drill is going to go on the boring bar. Like, all these pieces. I started making those decisions. I realized, oh, my gosh, like, the strategy behind the manufacturing is like art. It's truly an art form. And one of the things that can go wrong with these machines is when you transfer it to the sub spindle, like, or when you transfer it to get it out of the machine, it's like a moment where you can damage the pen. Like, someone told me when I was training up on my machine, they said, oh, making the part is easy. Getting it out of the machine is hard. And I was like, what? And then I was like, oh. Because like, imagine like, if you take every part and you go to grip it on something, if there's any little chip wrapped around the part, or if there's any chip in the subspan, like, chip, like a piece of metal, flake of metal in the subspindle, when you go to grab it, it's going to indent. It's going to, like, you know, press that chip into the body. And then instead of your part or your pen sitting very concentric to your sub spindle to your pickoff spindle, it will be kind of wonky.

It'll be eccentric. Yeah. So that was happening a lot, Especially when they were trying to speed up production. They would split half of the turning between the main side of the machine and the subside of the machine. And what I mean, there is these lathes, basically, are two lathes in one where you have, like, one lathe where you do, like, the front half and one lathe where you do the back half. And they operate independently and they can operate synchronized. They're very complicated machines. But, yeah, like, they'd be like splitting it to save time. So they would do a lot of features on the subside. I don't blame them for that. They were. Their job is to make money and make good parts. Right. My job is to make great pens. So I want to do everything in like the way that I can make it the best but not necessarily the fastest. So I like learned these trade offs and once I started learning that, I was like, oh, now there's like this art form of manufacturing where it's not just the design, but it's like the intentionality of chip control. Like, how am I going to control the metal as it's coming off the pen? Like, controlling the chips is as important as it is to controlling the manufactured part. And that started to become like its own art and finding ways to do that and finding tools from Switzerland or from Japan where they have like really cool strategies to do this. And it just really started to shape when I was in front of the machine making the Pocket six. It really started to like paint the picture of what the rest of my career was going to look like in terms of like, I'll say that now, I guess. I mean, I've only been doing this, I don't know how long, but optimistically, the rest of my career would look like.

Yeah. I actually was like talking to a baker on Instagram. I need to follow up with him. But like, I put out a story the other day where I, I know I want to talk to a production baker because of like how specific some of the recipes are for like the finish of the knob on my ultim part and the finish of the titanium clip and how the process and how we build that recipe and how we control all the ingredients and all the process. What's going in, what are the checks, what's going out, how do we build that control process for physical manufacturing? Because, you know, I made the leap from a career where I'd make a two dimensional drawing in a three Dimensional drawing and maybe a color material and finished document. And then we would make our parts, we make our products. Now I'm like controlling every aspect of that and I'm realizing it's. There's so much more to making these recipes for finishing, making these assembly protocols, making your criteria for successful assembly, making video documentation like, like, how do you. Making custom tools, making workstations for each part of the process. Like, it's crazy. And though we don't, you know, we're a small company, we're four people, including myself, so I have three full time employees right now. But like the Monarch EVO is like 12 parts, I think maybe 13 custom parts. That's a lot. And each of them has a, like a series of finishing operations that are not easy to remember. And you come back from a trade show and you're like, how'd I make that again? Like, how did I. How'd I get that to look so good? Or was I, you know, was I seeing this type of defect? Oh, we got to quarantine these, like, you know, like, whatever it is. Like, there's just so much that goes into production and it's like, what's fun is like, I don't know, these are just creative ways to solve problems. Like, you got to come up with a creative way to tackle every aspect of this ecosystem and keep the customers happy. And I don't know that multifaceted problem solving is what makes this really tasty and interesting.

Yeah, yeah. It's a lot to take in out there. It's kind of amazing that anything gets made at all.

Yeah. I think like, sometimes like we take advantage of the fact that like we can get like any sort of affordable anything. Like, it's insane to me that like, still we get like, fresh fruit in the winter. Like, yeah, I. I don't know. Like, I don't take it for granted. I'm, like, thinking about the containers, shipping and the packaging and the washing, like, and, like, and how bummed I am when I get, like, a bad set of strawberries. You know, like.

Like, the world is still, like, truly an amazing place. And. And to be marveled at at, like, the ecosystems that have been built and the processes with which we just. I don't know, like, we get a cheap sweatshirt, and you're just like, holy. Oh, how did this even happen? Like, how did this happen? How did I get a computer mouse for $6? And, like, sometimes it gets really dystopian, and you think about some of, like, who's paying if I'm not paying with money?

more, and you're like, oh, it gets heavy. It gets really heavy.

But, like, I don't know. Like, I think, like, I like this space where I'm an artist and I get to meet with these other artists at these pen shows and. Because, like, truly, they're artists. Like, some people might see themselves as business people, and they might have a CEO listed on their LinkedIn or whatever, but, like, they're artists. You know, they're making art. And to make these processes and make it feel seamless and make the experience is, like, it's truly amazing. It's a lot to it. I. I don't take it for granted anymore.

That's such a good question. So I'll first touch on, like, what anodization is, and then I'll talk about how we're able to produce those effects. So, like, there's two main types of anodizing that we use. One is for aluminum, and that's what you're primarily seeing on our pens, and one is for titanium, and you'll see that on some of our pens. So, like, the Monarch Evo in blue, that's anodized titanium, and Any of our Monarch nibs in a color. Those are all titanium. And those are created using an electrolyte electrical current. And you essentially change the voltage and you're growing an oxide on the titanium. Like you put it in the electrolyte, oxide grows. The oxide is thin and clear and it makes like a prismatic style effect where you're creating like a new visual color because of like a light bending on the surface of this clear oxide. Crazy, crazy stuff. Titanium anodizing. Google that. It is like magic. You see it before.

Yeah, that's so cool. It's like my favorite thing to demo when people come to the shop because it's a real wow moment. It's the thing where if somebody's like a friend of mine's high school, like, kid wants to come to the shop, I'd be like, this is what I'm going to show you to bring you over to the dark side of stem. But that's titanium anodizing. So the pens, like our pocket six line, those are aluminum. And it's actually a radically different process. You take the aluminum parts, you etch them, you oxidize them, you grow like a thin layer of aluminum oxide on the part. The part physically grows like on the order of like a thousandth sometimes per side, which is huge. It's like that's a lot because on threads that like compounds like a lot. So you gotta. There's like a technical aspect there. I digress. So you go the oxide and the oxide is a little porous and you put that in a dye and you dye it a color and then you seal it and then it's done. Now what you see from our pens is they're like splatter crazy, like multicolor, like different fades, kind of like just different motifs of aluminum anodizing. And this is actually not done in house at shown design. It's one of the only things we do not do currently because it is a specialization that is so deep. Like I, you know, I, I'm afraid I'm going to get in trouble for saying this, but it's like Yushi lacquer get me in trouble. I have respect for my anodizers. I think what they do is like yi lacquer. But. But basically these folks who do this work, that's all they do. They have maybe 20 different colors set up and they have different ways of masking specific parts of the package.

Yeah, wax, wax is good for titanium masking. It can be a little problematic because you got to strip it, but you can use wax. Some people use like Elmer's glue. Other people are using like different silicone sealers. Other people are using UV curing glues. And then most people will not talk about how they do it because it's like trade secret.

So this is like a process that's a little bit of a black box. I mean we know how it's done. We have close relationships with these anodizers, but they're, they safeguard their true process because there's a lot of biting in that space per se. And people have a lot of pride in the way they can create a space themed kind of like with star white, little star specs. They have like a lot of pride in their process and that's directly tied with the work they can get. And that, that product process is very prevalent in yo yos, in paintball guns, in everyday carry style keychain items. But yeah, our, our anodizers are like a tremendous asset. And learning how to talk to them about. Okay, we're coming up with a theme. We want it to look like this. These are the colors. This is the type of style that we've seen you do before over here. And then like making kind of a recipe for them and then just like hoping it turns out okay is like that was the process. So it's not done in house for us, but we've got a couple really good players that we've been using over the years. And we had one that retired from anodizing. We were gutted because he was our absolute favorite anodizers.

It's a lot to take in. Yeah. Multicolor anodizing, you don't see it a lot in consumer products because, Johnny, to your question, they do them one by one. Like so like the discipline to be like, I'm gonna do this style for 25 pens. I mean we're talking about a multi step process. It's like bacon, you know, you've gotta etch them. You've got to get it out of the etch too, like, quickly, otherwise some will be dull and some will be bright. You gotta etch the caps and the bodies maybe at the same time, you know, to make sure that those surface consistencies are the same. Then you gotta anodize them the same amount so that they grow the same amount. And then you gotta, like, you know, get those out and make sure that everything is perfectly clean all the time. Otherwise you're going to get imperfections or like, weird stuff going on. And then they got to be applying the colors to all of them at once. So you're rocking 20, 25 sets of pens at once. That's usually our, our, like batch size. Because we, we can't do 50 to 100 usually at once for these processes. You can do it, but it's like.

I mean, it's. It is truly. It's. It's a really expensive process. We don't wholesale a lot of that work. We did a little bit, but not as much anymore. Just because. Just because the cost of that wholesale is terrifically high or. Sorry, cost of the process is terrifically high. So the margins, the wholesale makes it very difficult. We do a little bit of wholesale with that stuff, but it's mostly like, for marketing purposes. Like, and I always tell my wholesalers that. Which is good because, like, I'm bad. I don't know, I'm really bad at running a business, but I'm very good at being transparent. Like, I like telling people everything. And they're like, why are you telling me this? But I remember I was working with. I won't say who, but I was working with a partner on this big retailer and they wanted to do a custom color. And I said, yeah, we'll do this color. And like, this is the price it's going to be. And we can promise that it can be like, consistency is going to be like this. There's going to be variability. Like, like walking through the whole analyzing process, said, we're gonna do this so that you can help us get our name out. And I need you to write one email and I want a social media thing and I want you to use our actual handle so people can click it. And that's in exchange for the pens and like, money, of course. But like, I was like, these things are as important as the money because it's not a lucrative Way to make product. It's too expensive to do that finish, which is why you don't see it from other pen brands. Because it looks dope, it's awesome, but it's a loss. So I think we're lucky that we manufacture in house. So our manufacturing cost, I would say is low or there's cost efficiency rather, because we're not paying someone to manufacture those parts. So we're paying for our ecosystem to run.

We're paying for, you know, your, your overhead and you're paying salaries and all this stuff and hourlies and whatever. But like you're not paying somebody X number of dollars to make the pens. So like we have like cost.

Is like material and our like ecosystem cost. So we have that efficiency there. And because of that, I think we're able to put a lot of cost into the anodizing and still come out okay. But tricky process.

That's a really good question.

I mean, Aspace. Like, my principle behind that was twofold. One, I was like, if I'm gonna carry a pen, this was like a lifetime ago at this point. It was like, if I'm gonna carry a pen, it needs to write every time I take it out of my pocket, which is like very like utilitarian principle. So I was like, if I'm making this, it's got to be like, boom. So it's got to write upside down. It's got to just like have that little pressure. And then the other piece of it is I really was obsessed with the idea of making a hundred percent American made product, which, like, I don't really know how I got on that. I think I got on that because, like, there was a couple retailers that were really influential in my early upbringing as like a like maker that Were like all about carrying domestic made products and it was cool that you could meet the makers and you can see where they live and you can kind of like relate to it in a way. And the challenges. Now I'm kind of like more shifted my focus into craft product, which I would say is like, I don't really care where it's made, I care how it's made. So, like, if you live in Canada and you have a craft process, awesome. It's just as cool as being USA made. But back then I was obsessed with usa, so I wanted an American made cartridge. Now I'm kind of like global. Craftsmanship is craftsmanship wherever you live in the world. If you're doing cool craft process, if you're doing stuff in house, if you're really involved in the design or whatever, that's like, great. And I'm like a little bit like less, I would say, like hardcore bent on it needing to be stateside for whatever reason. Yeah. So makes sense.

Yeah, man. Crazy stuff, fountain pens.

Just make a pencil. Yeah. I'm thinking making a pencil. We'll put a pin in that. We'll put a pin in that. We'll come back to that. Yeah. Sometimes when I get sick of making like crazy, when I'm like so deep in it, I'm like, why did I just not make a pencil? But. But yeah. So I showed you that prototype we we were in a really interesting spot, I think like this, this is like a comp. There's a lot of, there's a lot of angles to talk about this. So I'll talk about them all at once.

So I, we. Our workshop was. Was in Fishtown in Philadelphia, and our landlord was hinting at selling the building. There were like people coming through, insurance agents, people who said they were insurance agents wearing real estate vests. And I was like, yo bro, you ain't no insurance agent. But we knew we were going to get kicked out of our space. And I was really nervous because relocating the factory that we had built at that time in a 3,500 square foot space with six machines and all of our finishing processes, like, that's, that's a tremendous amount of stuff. That's like each machine is like two tons plus the bar loader, or sorry, £2,000, £4,000 per machine. So we're talking like upwards of like $30,000 with the bar, £30,000 with the bar loaders of equipment to move alone. And it's like the cost is astronomical. So we. I had this idea of cooking for a long time that if you're. And like, necessity being the mother of invention, I was like, we're gonna have to relocate the company. And if we're gonna do that, we have to be really serious about like making this work, making this financially viable because, like, it's so expensive. And we had barely like gotten our cost out of building out that space and landing all those machines there. And it was like devastating. I was like. And I was panicked, truly. And. And my wife was pregnant. There's a lot going on. There's a lot going on. So I was just like, I was having a full panic. So I had this idea prior that I was going to make nibs, but I didn't put as much pressure on myself. So coming into like fountain pens, I knew that the heart of the pen was the nib. And when I made watches, the heart of the watch is the movement. And people would say to me, when are you going to make the movement? And like, that's mean. That's mean because, like, nobody does that. Like, very, very, very few brands. We'll talk about like Seiko for a second. Seiko makes their own movements and like large. And then other people make parts of the movement or, you know, and they say they make the whole thing, but they only make parts. And there's this weird. It's a little deceptive and a little marketing E. Like, how much of stuff people make. Anyways. It was an impossible challenge when I was doing watches. But with the pen, I said, why not make a fountain pen nib? And then again, it's like, what is missing? What is there to add? And I had this idea a long time ago that if you varied the thickness of a nib, you could change its properties, like, in terms of its flexibility. And you could change the flexibility, like, locally, and you could add, like, ridges. So I have a prototype that I think I made. I think I, like, actually made the first in the metal of a titanium nib made out of plate. It wasn't made out of a bar like the Monarch is. It was a plate. And I machined it down into the shape of a nib, and I left these, like, ridges in the center, which were like struts. And I left a bit of material on the front because I wasn't going to tip it. I was going to use the base material of this hardened at the time. That was grade five. I work with grade five and grade 23 titanium interchangeably. Well, that's not necessarily true, but I work with both of those alloys. But, yeah, grade five plate. I machined it and I formed it, and I made a fountain pen nib. And it functioned like I made just the nib, not the feed, not the housing. And it had this, like, variable thickness. So I had this kind of idea in my mind about this variable thickness, and I was like, if I could make these. And it was Thai so you could anodize it. And I made it blue, of course, because it's cool. So I had this blue nib that I made, and I was like, here. I started showing a couple people. It was a blue nib and had this variable thickness. So this cool aesthetic. And as I was making those prototypes, I was like, why wouldn't I start from a bar? Because I was. I. I knew a lot about. Not a lot. I knew enough about lathe production because I was doing the Pocket 6 manufacturing. So I was like, oh, I know the capabilities of these machines. I could start with a bar, and then I wouldn't need to form it, and I'll just, like, put the feed in. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to make a nib from a solid bar of titanium. And I was like, no one's done this before. It could have the esthetic of the my you, which was like the Japanese, like, integrated nib fountain pen. Those are made with, like, deep drawing and, like, tubes, essentially, that are, like, forms and cut extremely Cool manufacturing process, different scale. Like, that's like a bigger scale. You're not going to do that for, like, a couple of pieces. Tooling is astronomical. Lots of different steps involved. But I was like, oh, I'm gonna start from a solid, which no one's done before. So I'll have my own lane. Right. I'll have my own way of doing this, my own, like, challenges, of course. And I start, like, prototyping the first Monarch Nibs. And I'm coming into it, I think my first, like, functional Monarch. I'd have to check my notes, but it's like 2020, I think late 2020, I had my first monarch.

2021 was, like, full development time.

Yeah. I mean, this. This project broke me because, like, it was so hard.

Like, this project broke him, this project broke me. And then you just show a picture of me, like, pull my hair out.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, absolutely.

I. I just, like, I don't know. I. I'm kind of a glutton for punishment when it comes to, like, technical challenges. Like, I love a deep, healthy challenge where I know at the end, if I'm able to accomplish it, like, good things will happen to me. You know, I'll be able to have, like, my own lane in this industry that I really like. And the people are really friendly and I'm like, I like this scene. Like, I want to give them everything. Like, I want to give my customers as much as I can give them of my talent, of my, like, engineering talent and of my, like, approach. Like, you know, I. I don't think, like, coming back to your comment earlier, Tim, about, like, the best fountain pen. Like, what's the best, the most max anything or writing instrument? Like, I don't think the Monarch is the best. I think it's a specific. And I tell all my customers this, like, especially ones who come to my trade show table and they say, oh, why should I buy this? Why is this better than this other thing? And it's like, it's not better. It's different. It's its own thing. You know, it is stiff, it is cool looking. It's made in Philly. If it resonates with you, like, it resonates with you.

Yes, you're 100% correct. That's. That's a really good way to put it. I think I'm. Maybe I'm being a little bit too simple when, when people are looking at just the nib and they say, why is this nib better? And I'm in the context of fountain pen people and they're not seeing that. Like, I often tell them that, like, you have to see it in yourself. Yeah. Because like writing instruments are like. Like you can get anything and it will write, like anything. Ballpoint, you know, pen at the bank, pencil. Like it doesn't matter even a pencil. But like, you could get, you could get any, any writing instrument and it does the same thing. This is, this is an emotional product. It makes you feel something. And if it, if you feel something, then I'm doing my job as an artist. If you listen to a song.

Thank you. I mean, I appreciate that. It's like, if you listen to a song and you hate it, like, don't listen to that song anymore. But if you listen to a song and it's awesome, like, that's because it's vibrating, you know, it's like doing something for you emotionally. This is purely an emotional product. So this is like a hyper technical design challenge to make an emotional project product, which is an insanely. That's like a real. It really pulls at you. So I had this concept of making this solid nib. I had prototypes. They were really difficult for a lot of reasons, which I won't go into all the facets of the production but like. And the prototyping phases, but like, essentially, like I was running into these roadblocks where I was like, this does not work. I had a principle for some, some piece of the puzzle. And I was like, it doesn't work. Like, for example, I'll give you one. One really weird one. There was in the first Monarch prototypes, a set screw in. Shout out to set screws.

Yeah.

I put a set screw under the feed, which I had seen before. There's another company that had done this, but I put a set screw in so you could push the feed up. And I was like, oh, I'll adjust the ink flow. Wrong. Didn't work. Bad idea. It was cool. But, like, immediately I was like, wow. I spent, like, all this time, like, learning how to drill a really tiny hole in the side of the nib and then, like, tapping it in the Swiss lathe. And, like, it was tough. And I scrapped it. And I was like, nope. And then the original Monarch nib actually had an internal O ring seal inside of the nib. So, like, the nib had this crazy, boring bar that would go in and you'd, like, groove it and you'd, like, seed an O ring to give you, like, good, robust seal between the feed and the fountain pen, which I had found that was, like, an oversimplification of how feeds worked. And. Yeah. So essentially, I was, like, solving these challenges one by one and, like, diving into them all the while trying to make money to continue to support myself, all the while seeing my landlord, like, kind of encroaching on us. And I was like, oh, oh, man, this is going to be a bad one. And I was like, my wife is also like, I'm going to have my first child. Like, I really need to get this thing going. And I was like. I was. I wouldn't say in a spiral, but I was, like, feeling very claustrophobic at

I mean, I. I don't think he meant obvious. It's funny. I mean, he's another artist, but he. I don't know. I don't think he. It resonated with him how intense that must have been for me in that moment. And nobody can know what it feels like to be me because I have my own specific situation going on. But the other artists in the building felt it. Others were leaving, you know, because they were like. Like, you know, I gotta get out of here. But anyways, like, I was solving these pieces of the puzzle, and I was like, oh, my God, we need money. I need to make another product. So I would, like, pause development, break down the Monarch, set something else up, like, come up with. I came up with the full size pen, which used to be. The full size pen came from the Monarch. That. That pen used to be, like, integrated with the Monarch together. And it was like a different product architecture. And I, like, basically, like, hacked and chopped it. And like, did like a design sprint and was like, this is it. And was like, bang. Did the full size pen and ultem. Was it aluminum or ultim first? I forget. But whichever one I did first, like, that was like, to make enough money to like, get to the next Monarch milestone. Yeah. And I didn't want to tell anyone that I was doing this because as. As amazing as the community is, I like to design like a little bit in my own space. I don't want to be influenced by people's opinions of it. It quite yet. Later on in the. I like to have like, my own space to design. And I didn't want to be releasing prototypes or be like, people would offer to pay for prototypes often. Like when people saw that nib at the SF Pen show that I showed you, people, like, I'll buy that prototype. Like, and that's super cool of people. I love that. That's a very generous spirit. They want to support the creators. But I didn't want to be like, you know, because I would have. I would have sold them just to, like, make rent. Yeah. So I was like, in a weird spot. And then I hadn't started making the feeds yet. So the feed turned out to be like, the like, most insane thing to design ever.

Yeah. So. So I had a lot of challenges with making the slit in the nib. In the Monarch nib.

Specifically because of that saw. Yeah. And then the feed also has a similarly narrow slit. But I. Yeah, I had a lot of challenges with that saw. And I ended up going with a company in Switzerland that's like very specific to a specific type of saw in like. Like, I. I'm pretty sure they cut their teeth. Wow. Pun intended. They cut their teeth of the saw in the. In the watch industry, like, making very specific little saws. And this saw was so tricky to use and so expensive that I just was like exploding them like, constantly. Like, bang. And that was really scary because I did not have, like, enough money to like, be doing that, but it was happening and I had to push it. Like, you had to. You have to figure out how to make. Make it work. So I was using different types of saws and it was crazy. But the. The feed itself was really Interesting, because, you know, for those who don't know what a feed is, a feed is the. The piece that goes inside of a fountain pen nib that exchanges the air and the ink. Ink goes out, air goes in. Okay. And then the feed also has to absorb any impact of a thermal event on a fountain pen. So you have an air volume inside of your cartridge or your converter or your piston filler. And as the pen heats up in your hand, that air is going to expand, and then it's going to push some ink out. And where does the ink go? It goes into the feed, and the feed has to take that on. It has to take that pressure wave, and it has to produce a consistent writing experience. And it has to be able to empty any of that overflowed ink out into the writing, into the writing surface in a consistent way and block the air from exchanging. So you're not just, like, having stagnant ink in the feed. Like, there's crazy amounts of work in feed design.

It's huge. It's crazy. I mean, like, we built this test rig, which basically was like, a really sensitive pressure gauge. And I would hook it up to the back of a pen, and I'd put the pen in sunlight, just in sunlight. And you'd watch the presser gauge, like, just start cranking, like, by, like, you know, 0.0, 1.0, 2.0, 3.04. Like, it would go up. And the feed again, where does the air go as the air increases? And the pressure gauge, this is with a deadheaded nib. So, like, the nib was essentially a block of plastic. So you. You can monitor the amount of pressure buildup that you have in an event where a pen is in the sun. And the pen should be able to be in the sun, you know, like, that's. You gotta be able to do that. You gotta be at the coffee shop and the lights coming in the window, and it hits the pen.

That's what I'm talking literal sun.

Yeah, Tuck it into the sun. But it needs to be in sunlight, and it needs to be able to deal with the warmth of the hand. And I don't know, like, the feed is a. What would I call this? It's like a static mechanism. Like, it doesn't have knobs, you know, it needs to account for the panel. You can't calibrate it. Yeah. You can't do anything to it. It's just like a passive.

It's a passive component. So it's not actively monitoring the amount of air and the amount of ink in your pen. It's not actively monitoring temperature. It has to account for all of the inks. You know, like, so much range in inks which change in ph, viscosity, wetness, like, you know, pigment. Like, it has to account for all of those. It has to account for all these different conditions in terms of, like, full writing, half full, barely any ink left. It has to deliver as good of an experience as it can in those situations. It's going to get jostled around a little bit. Hopefully not a lot, but a little bit. And it has to, like. I don't know, it's. It's just. It's a big challenge to design that part. And I totally underestimated how hard it was going to make to make feeds. So that was like, the last piece of the puzzle where I was like, oh, the nib is mostly done. The Monarch. And then I was like, the rubber needs to meet the road. I need to do this. And I remember just like. Like having a notebook, and I would, like, make a feed and I would, like, test it and, like, write down all my notes, and I would tape the feed to the paper and I would make another one and just make another one and make another one and make another one. And I have all these crazy ideas, and most of them didn't work. And then when they started to work, I didn't know why.

I was like, oh, God. And then I was like, is this good enough? I was like, what's good enough?

Like, yeah. I was like, maybe it'll work.

Maybe it works. Yeah, you're. Maybe you're broken. Maybe I work.

Yeah. Yes. You know, your hand's too warm. And then you gotta ask. And then you gotta ask yourself, like, what's the limit? You know, because, like, when you think about, like, leaking pens, like, leaking pen is bad experience. But, like, under what conditions does the pen leak? Like, if I swing the pen around, it will link, you know, because it's like an open system. Is that considered a leak? I don't know. It's releasing ink, but, like, what are the limits if it's dropped on the ground. Can it, like kick out a little ink? I'd be like, yeah, that's cool. I'm cool with that. But not during like normal writing. So hitting that crate.

What about an airplane? That's huge. That's like the thing. That's the thing.

That's a really, really tough challenge to have pens not explode in an airplane.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, I mean, I, I like had, I had good success with the pocket six early on because it was like really flight friendly. Like you can fly with those pens all day because there's a rubber seal on the cap cap which like seals the air volume. So the pressure changes are not like squeezing on the. Like the ink changes.

Exactly. Don't open it. I mean, you can, but you have to be careful. But it's a sealed system, so it's like more resilient to those types of pressure changes. Also, the ink volume is very small in a pocket six. It's tiny cartridge. So you can only have tiny amount of air. Bigger pen, bigger amount of air, Bigger problem. Problem. Fill your pens before you fly. Less problem. Truly. So if you have a full pen when you fly, it's really not an issue at that point because there's no air. Liquid does not expand like air dust. But yes, crazy, crazy challenges.

you know, I like thought there would be like math to support all this stuff. And I was like doing this math and I had like, what I thought would be the right pressure balance calculations. Like how to balance pressure inside of the ink, an air chamber or like that. How to bounce pressure changes inside of the cartridge versus like going into the feed and how to like do all this stuff and the size of the opening. But then when it came down to is you just like, you gotta have a good hypothesis and you look at historically how feeds were made, and then you just have to make a million freaking feeds. You have to make so many. And, and that's what was so fascinating to me about it because I was like, as I was going through this, I was like, like in a, in a pressure crunch. And I was like, wow. I was like, everyone who's made a feed before, like, has been through this. It's not something where you, like, design it on a computer and it just works. Like, you really have to do it so many times. And then it was like all these other variables. Like, you could take an abrasive stone, like a little abrasive stone, and you could, like, rub the inside of the nib and create, like, micro scratches on the inside of the nib. And the feed would respond very differently because all of a sudden, you've created a wetter surface on the inside of the nib. And then you're like. And then how do you manage that? And you're like, how do I keep that surface consistent? And then cleanliness was a big factor. And like, oh, my God, like, stuff. It was, man, it really. It really put me through the ringer. Fascinating times. And we still tweak the feed. You know, we still are doing feed engineering constantly, you know, because, like. Like, different challenges, bigger pen. You know, Monarch Evo's got a bigger capacity. It needs a little bit of a different feed than a traditional Monarch.

Correct. And then how, like, we know we have to clean these pens.

How do we. How cleanable is the feed design? Is there trapped areas where it can't be cleaned anyways? So crazy deep dive.

Yeah, thanks. I mean, it. I think it, like, really rounded me out as, like, diving into the engineering chops, like, being a good hypothesis creator and trying to track these things, being a good CNC programmer, being, you know, being able to CAD model to. To, like, reflect my practical experimentation and, like, keeping track of those physically and digitally and then being able to understand, like, the customer and the human side of it, like, how do these customers expect these to work? You know, what are. How are they benchmarked against what products? And then, like, how to. How to charge for this. You know, when I made the Monarch Nib initially, I was like, I hope this nib is under a thousand dollars. I was really nervous that, like, I was nervous that it was going to be like a thousand dollars for a nib. I was like, oh, my God, I don't know. And I. I, like, didn't know how to grind nibs, too, which is like a whole nother, like, world. Because just because you made the nib and because you have a feed and everything's functioning correctly, that's Gonna feel like, pretty freaking awesome. Like, it's gotta feel so good.

And getting that piece of the puzzle and understanding that, like, took a long time. And I worked with, you know, my Nip Smith friends, Gina Salarino and Josh Lacks and Mark Bacchus specifically. Those three were video chatting me in front of my microscope where I was like showing them the shape of the N, was sending them prototypes so they could grind them and send them back to me early on to, like, see where we were at. And then I knew that, like, if we did this and if it was like successful in any way, like people were. And what I mean by success is like, is this making someone happy? Like, truly? Because, like, that's the criteria for success as a business that deals in emotional products. Like, I want people to be happy, happy. If they're not happy, I'm not doing my job because we. You could have gotten the ballpoint and if you were looking for a ball, like, if you're. You know what I mean? Like, so this is like such a specific niche and I wanted people to just be floored by this. And I wanted to be as affordable as possible. And it was tough because the first Monarch release I think was like 400. It did come with a pen, which was cool. That was like a big swing. So you got the whole aluminum pen and the Monarch Nib in there for 400 bucks. And since we become like less, like, that was like a promotional time. Now it's like 385 for just the Nib. Really expensive product. But I think there's enough people who are in the space and they see the work and they're intrigued by seeing me continue down this path. So I want to honor that by continuing to do weirder and more interesting things with the nids. And I hope they feel like their contribution to my work has been, like, honored.

Right? I mean, thanks. Yeah, I. I feel like we've had a good amount of attention. And it's been really fun to, like, see the enthusiasm. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a. It's been a very strange ride because I really did not anticipate this, But I think, like, that's the truth is, like, when you have a customer base or a client that, like, is really respectful, is really, like, honest and, I don't know, like, generous, you want to do everything for them. Like, you want to. You want to support that relationship because it's enabling me to do this. And it, you know, I don't know.

What?

I'm like, I'm gonna write that down. Pencil.

Nice. Yeah, I remember we talked about that, and then I probably, like, vanished off into the distance for many years. I. I'd be interested in making a bullet pencil. And I have. Yeah, I. I would just want to make it in a way that feels somehow like people are like, yeah, this makes sense. That in this moment in time, it should exist like this.

And feel like this. And we had.

Yeah, I'd be intrigued to learn more. I'd be intrigued to learn more. I. I want to figure out a reason to make it. Like, I don't want it to look like the other ones or, like, if it looks like the other ones, I want it to feel like something different somehow.

That's my. My design challenge. Because we can make those parts, like, for sure, we have the capability to make the pencilly or the. The metal part be interesting. Do you have a good. What pencil do you imagine would go in the bullet pencil? You know, like, what is that?

Interesting.

I'm into it. I love that idea.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. I think it'd be fun. Yeah, I think it'd be fun.

No, I love that. I think that's good. This is my accountability podcast.

January 23rd.

Will I be at Baltimore? Yeah, I'll be at the Baltimore show. Yeah, I'll be there.

Oh, show me. Yes, please. That would be awesome. That'd be great. I can get really inspired. Yeah. I think it could be cool. It could be time. It could be kind. You guys will be the right people to usher this into the world, you know? Like, it's. It's the pencil, you know, that's the piece that. Whenever I think about making a mechanical pencil, mostly because I'm like, oh, my God. I'm just, like, so tired of, like, this, like, very tricky technical challenge. I'm, like, beating myself up about. I'm like, all right, you know what? I'm gonna make something very different as, like, a breath of fresh air. And then I'm like, well, what mechanical pencil doesn't exist? I'm always like, what's missing? And I don't know enough about mechanical pencils. So I pause there, and maybe one day I'll find out what's lacking, and I'll be like, that's the thing. That's what needs to be made, you know? And I think, like, that's the. That's the piece. Like, I'm. I'm working on this really weird project that might not even ever get finished, but it's like a dip nib. Dip nibs are having a moment in fountain pens where you, like, dip them and you, like. It's like kind of like a paintbrush in a way, but a little different. And I'm working on this dip nib. And the reason it should exist is because this one looks like a fish. And, you know, you. You need one that looks like it's from Fishtown. Yeah. This one's from North Philly. North Philly. Proudly from North Philly. Yeah. But it looks like a fish. And I believe that it should exist because it looks like a fish. It has, like, an eye and kind of, like a shape of a fish.

And that's, like, enough. But I haven't finished this project, so I don't know. I mean, but, like, sometimes, like, you know, there has to be something. Like, I also have this idea that I need to make a tiny hammer, and I don't like, a really small one, and I don't know why, because I don't use a tiny hammer. I'm not. Like, every day when I use my tiny hammer, it is lacking in these three criteria.

Where is It.

I just, like, can imagine making this little hammer and then being like, I don't know what I'm hitting in this thing.

Yeah, okay, perfect. Maybe I make a tiny anvil and a tiny, tiny chisel.

Yes.

Yeah. So I need to make this. For some reason, I don't know why, but I keep threatening to make it. And around Christmas, I'm usually like, yeah, let's shut everything down, make the tiny hammer.

Hammer time.

Yeah.

that rules.

Was that really six years ago?

Well, we're back now.

Sign. The podcast is a sign of health.

I don't know. I. I'm just. I'm just, like, really happy to be here. I'm really happy to keep doing what I'm doing. So thank you for helping me do that.

By helping me get my story out and. I don't know. It's cool. Let's hang again soon, Johnny. I'll see you in bwi. If you're. If you're in Los Angeles, there's a Los Angeles PEN show. So to the listeners, check that out. It's a pretty fun scene. Don't be intimidated. It's fun. It's fun. Show. SF Pen show, of course, is really cool. I see Andy there.

Crowded, very crowded. If you don't want crowds, go on Sunday. It's usually a little quieter on Sundays, but. Yeah, you know, I'm just, like, just kind of surfing through it, just trying to, like.

Thank you. I try and be like. When I have the energy to, like, share something, I'll, like, share and I'll.

It's from the heart. Like, I just, like, show you what I'm interested in or what we're building at that moment.

No PR team, but yeah. Or just, you know, follow along. You'll see us breaking machines and then fixing them and then fixing them and then breaking them. And you'll see us making pen things and sometimes maybe skateboarding the ramp or,

Lots of set screws, man. Ground set screws. It's good stuff, but, yeah. Thanks again, you know, thanks again for having me.

Awesome.

Thank you so much. Yeah, you can find me at Shon DSGN. So that's S C-H-O-N-S-G N dot com. Or at S C, H, O, N underscore D S, G, N on Instagram. Yeah.

Oh, man. Back when I. I was, like, in college, my friend and I. It's the last story, I swear. But, like, they were like, oh, hey, there's this portfolio contest coming up. And I was like, I don't have time to make the portfolio. And he's like, I'll make the website for your portfolio. Because he was really into web. And we were like, we need a brand for, like, the thing. And he came up with, like, the logo and the dsdn, and we were, like, tinkering on it, and it was like, four portfolio contests, and it just, like, stuck. And I never changed. Yeah, I never changed it. And it doesn't make any sense. I don't know.

It just is what it is. Yeah, yeah.

stuff to talk about. Do you like our podcast? Most people like our podcast, but if you like our podcast, David will turn it off.