This transcript was generated from an audio file by AI, and may contain inaccuracies.
Transcript
This is sponsored by OMalley's flour makes the best biscuits. Hello and welcome to the Erasable Podcast. This is episode 169 and I am Tim Wasem on hosting duties tonight. And with me, as always, is Andy and Johnny. Greetings, guys.
Hello.
Greetings, Tim.
How goes it?
Good. It's been a while since I've been here.
That's true. It's been like five weeks or something like. That's crazy to think about it that way.
Yeah, we replaced me with a professional, but yeah.
His. His. What's the thing? His. All the M M's and stuff that we had to make for him. His. His writer was too crazy. We just had that.
Oh, yeah,
he had to fill. Get enough orange M and Ms. To fill a brondy glass.
And I don't know why anybody would need that many Nakayas.
But, you know, just as a.
She specifically said in the writer that he was going to throw them away after he filled it up and used one.
So just one per page.
They're disposable Nakayas. Yeah. So we tried, but thankfully we failed. So we're glad to have you back.
I'm glad to be back.
And we took a little extra time between these last couple episodes with the holiday weekend and just lots of stuff going on, so. But we're glad to be back and we've got a lot of good stuff to talk about. One topic we wanted to bring up this weekend or for. For this episode that we hadn't talked about in long enough. And it's a pretty basic topic, which is paper. But we want to talk about what we're going to call unicorn paper. So we were. We've been talking a lot about pencils, we've been talking about pens. And tonight we're going to talk about our favorite papers and what we look for in our search for the perfect page that works for all the stuff that we like to do. But before we go unicorn hunting, let's jump into the tools of the trade. And Johnny, why don't you start us out?
Sure.
So the first item on my list is very fitting for tonight's topic. It is a novel called the People of Paper that came recommended by my friend Harold and is like, so good if you took a lot of stationary porn and magical realism and something else and shook it up. This is. That's the book. It's really, really, really good. But I'm very disappointed to find out the author hasn't written anything else since 05. So maybe I'll eat My words. And it's coming out like Tuesday and I just don't know. So we'll hope for that. And my other thing I've been consuming is another one of those second edition bullet journals on the really thick paper. Because the first one I got right when they came out, I wasn't a big fan of after a while because the paper was so slick and it didn't like pencils. It didn't seem like it liked my ink. And I swear they changed the ink, the paper formula because now it is pretty good with pencil. But fountain pen like sucks right into the paper. And that's really good for a bullet journal where you're flipping around a lot. So they do black and then one color a year. This one's called Blush, which really just kind of looks white unless you notice that it's not. It's pink. So that's pretty cool. And they, they did all of the little details in this color, like the little pocket guide that comes out of the back, which looks like a zine. So that's, that's really cool. I'm digging it and I'm writing with tonight, which we'll talk about more later. The Musgrave Green belt. So how about you, Andy?
Yeah, well, I mean, I'll. I guess I'll start off with, with that. I am also writing with the green belt, so.
Fist bump.
Yeah, definitely. Look forward to talking about that. Okay, so we just finished. It was six half an hour episodes. It was pretty easy. But have any of you heard of the show that's on Apple TV's network called Schmigadoon?
No, I've not watched it, but I've listened to both of the main actors interviewed about it, but I haven't watched it yet.
There's a lot of really good people. It has Keegan Michael Key. It has Cecily Strong from snl, has Alan Cumming in. It has Kristin Chenoweth, has lots of really good people. It's. It's like these two doctors from New York City who are engaged. They're in a relationship or hiking and they, they get lost in a magical world and get transported to, to Schmigadoon, which is in no way like Brigadoon musical. And they get stuck in. They get stuck inside a musical and it's, it's really fun. There's a lot of like good tropes from musicals in there. It's. Yeah, it's. It's pretty, it's pretty funny. It's, it's light hearted and it like. Yeah, if you're somebody who likes musicals, I have a feeling that our friend Tiffany Babb probably likes the show or would like this show.
So is it like a limited series or is it.
I have zero idea. Come back. Yeah, it felt like they kind of like wrapped it up at the end, but I feel like they could have left it open for a season two, but it's only six episodes and it's half an hour, so it's basically three hours. It's basically a musical. Right? Like, that's kind of how they did it, but it was pretty fun. We're also watching a show on Netflix called Only Murders in the Building. Have you. Have you all heard of this? No. Oh, it's really good. It has Steve Martin and Martin short.
Yes. I've been dying to watch this.
Selena Gomez. Yeah. And the thing that attracted us to it at the beginning was that it had the New Yorker font, like, on the. Like for the show title. And it's these three people who live in this fancy building in New York, and there's a. There's a. What looks like a suicide, but is it that happens in the building. And they're. They're all three, like, have bonded over the fact that they like the same true. True crime podcast. So they decided to start their own podcast trying to solve this. This murder in the building. And it's. It's very like. It's one of those, like, from the minds of Steve Martin, which I feel like is pretty accurate because it has a lot of, like, Steve Martin vibes to it, which is pretty good. But, yeah, definitely, definitely recommend that as well. And they're kind of releasing it like. Like as it goes. So if we're watching that and what. Ted Lasso and. Yeah, it's. It's pretty good. Lots of good stuff happening right now. And I'm reading. I've been kind of in the middle of the latest issue of the New Yorker, which is their. It's a food issue, which is always my favorite. But it's. They're. They're showing old or re. Re airing. They're reprinting old food articles in the New Yorker. So there's one that's in there from. From the 60s about just sort of like, oh, people's kind of guilty pleasures, like caviar or potato chips or whatever. There's. It's really good. I love. I love, like, old. Old backs. Backstories from, like, New Yorker's days gone by. So when it's about food, it's even more fun. And I am writing with my Musgrave green belt in my Baron fig notebook. Tim, how about you?
Nice. I've been reading Franny and Zoe by J.D. salinger, which. Have either of you read that?
No. Long, long time ago.
Yeah. Yeah. So I. It's one of those that I'd been. It had been recommended so many times by friends over the last couple decades, and. But the one. The one thing that kept drawing me back to it was that I had heard it referred to multiple times as being very Wes Anderson. Oh, interesting that it was. That people would. And I think that it's even been talked about by Wes Anderson or something as, like, an influence or something that he likes. And it's. It's. I mean, it's not really a novel. It's. It's like two novellas packaged in one book. Franny and Zoe are siblings, and they're siblings in this very kind of precocious family that is very Tenenbaums esque, like, from. From the Royal Tenenbaums, but they're much more, like, crass in. In your face than the Tenenbaums. It's not as, like, quiet. And. Yeah, these ones are more ornery. So. Yeah, but it's really good. It is really good. They're. The first one. Yeah. The first story, Franny is very. It's like a quiet story where Franny is visiting some boyfriend who's at. I forget what school it is, but it's like Yale or something. And he's like. He's going to visit him, and he's kind of a tool, and you can tell, like, right away that she's better than he is.
She's.
He's. You know, he's playing above his weight class or fighting above his weight class or whatever, but he. She goes to visit him, and then she's in the midst of this, like, spiritual crisis because she read this book, the. The Way of the Pilgrim. Have you ever heard of that?
But yes.
Yeah, it's like the book about the. The Jesus prayer or something. Anyways, she's, like, being tormented by this, like, crazy book that she read that's, like, hitting her really hard. And he's, like, talking about all this very superficial stuff. So it's like the whole story takes place at a dinner. Dinner table at a restaurant. Zoe, that story. Zoe's a. A guy. That one's. Everything that I've read so far has been happening in a bathroom. A conversation between a mother and mother and her son in a bathroom. But I think it does get out of the bathroom pretty Soon I'm. I'm enjoying it a lot. So they're all. They're all these. All the kids in the family were on some game show or like some TV show in the 50s about like super intelligent children. So that's what gives it that kind of royal ten of bombs vibe. They're all like prodigies.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm really enjoying that. And I have been listening to. And actually speaking of Ted Lasso, I discovered this artist from Ted Lasso. I heard a song on the show and it was a kind of a Motown kind of sold type song, which I was like one of my favorite genres. I heard it was like, I don't know the song. Why don't I know the song? And did a Siri check. And the artist's name was Mabel John. And I found an album, kind of had only one album, one album that ever came out. And the album just has a bunch of like, alternate takes of the same six songs or something. But anyways, it was. She's. She's excellent. But I ended up learning that she was the first female signed by Barry Gordy to Motown in 1959 or something. And so he had signed her to Motown and then she kind of didn't pan out or like, it got passed up by a bunch of the other people that were signed to. To Motown and then went on to sing back up for a lot of like, Ray Charles albums and stuff like that in the future. Yeah. Anyways, I listened to a lot of Mabel John, which is. The songs are very like. You can almost feel like they were all written in one afternoon and then recorded in one afternoon in, like, in a really good way. But I've been enjoying that quite a bit. And I am writing with the new Musgrave Tennessee Round to round things out in our. To round things out here in our tools of the trade. So let's jump right into fresh points. And Johnny, do you want to get us going on. On these must these awesome Musgrave pencils?
Yeah, I'll say. I'm like the transition king today. So first up, we have the Tennessee Rounds, which came out. And they're basically identical to the Tennessee Reds except for the fact that they say round and are round. So, like, I think we all enjoy a round pencil, but they also didn't mess with a pencil that didn't need messing with. That makes sense. Like, these are so damn good. I love them. And the tube is.
I don't know.
How would you put that? The way that the pencils fit in there. Tightly, but only at the collar. It's genius. It's perfect.
Yeah.
So I gotta get some pictures of that.
Yeah.
It's a really satisfying reveal when you slide it out and you see, like, the whole pencil.
Yeah. And of course, it smells amazing. And then they also have the new green belts, and I'm not from Tennessee, so I don't know what green belt is a reference to in, you know, of course, in Baltimore, we have Greenbelt. That's a D.C. suburb. And in Boston, what do they call it? The emerald necklace that the green line is based on. But I guess it's really a stretch. But anyway, they're sustainable, super eco pencils that aren't recycled anything. They're just really good, super raw cedar, which I really appreciate.
They smell really good.
Yeah. And they went, like, all out on the imprint. It's super detailed, which is also.
Can I. Can I offer two tiny bits of criticism? One for each of these?
No.
So I was very surprised in the. When I opened the Tennessee rounds. I was thinking, like, this is just, like, really heavily lacquered. This has got to be more heavily lacquered than the. The regular reds, like the hexes, and they're not. I. It. For some reason, as a round. As a round pencil, it feels more lacquered. I don't know if this. Like, if you all notice this, they
are definitely super shiny.
Yeah.
Yeah. I would have loved something that was a little bit more matte. I know that they can't get away with bare wood on cedar because it's so splintery, but I would love to have seen something like that. But. Yeah, because they were. They're so shiny. They kind of look like a. Like, foil wrapped. And I. I know that they're not. Like. I ran it through the sharpener, and I didn't get any, like, foil off of it, but feels a little. Just. Just a little. Little shiny.
I had the same. Same thought and then just kind of jumping right on, like, what you just said. Like, I. I figured they had a reason for it that. Yeah, I bet they did. Just kind of take it up a little bit by a little bit until they got it to a place where it's like, okay, this will hold together. And also, it still looks pretty cool. So. Yeah, I did notice that as well, because I was super excited about the round. The round release. And so I think in my head, I was so excited that I had a very specific idea of what was going to be in my head.
Yeah, it writes. It writes beautifully. It reminds me a lot of the hex one. Yeah, I like it. I like it a lot. It's just. That's something I noticed pretty, pretty quickly. And then the green belt. The green belt. I love how just sort of like bare wood it is. I noticed in their materials, they don't talk about the core at all. And it writes pretty noticeably lighter than the. Than the Tennessee round. It feels. It feels actually, like, harder than an hp. I have no idea if it is or. Or what, but I wonder if it's because it's. It's very, like, eco friendly. It's very recycled. I wonder if they're just kind of using whatever cores they have left left over. So we're gonna see inconsistent cores, but I wish it was a tiny, tiny bit darker. But I love the way it looks. I think it's just gorgeous. And yeah, Johnny, like you said that that printing is just gone all out, and it looks like it has that green eraser. It just looks so good.
Yeah, I'm like, in my head, I want a green stripe on the feral, but no. Yeah, that would look terrible. They probably tried that. No.
It'll be interesting to pit this against a forest choice. I suspect divorce choice would probably still kind of win out. But it also cost a little bit more than this guy does, I think. So. The packaging of the green belt is just phenomenal.
Yeah, that box is sweet. And they put foil on it, which they didn't have to do.
Yeah.
Is always fun.
I've always wondered with, like, where you're talking about it being harder. It's always. I've always wondered about whether the lack of lacquer on a pencil or lack of paint on a pencil makes it feel scratchier, if that makes sense when you're writing. I've always wondered about that. If it, like, if having some sort of lacquer or having some kind of paint, it's. It could be the same core, but it just adds just a little more of a barrier to, like, insulate the. The vibrations from writing. That sounds so nerdy and incredibly nerdy. But.
But I think we get it.
Yeah, you guys get it. So I've always wondered about that, like, if that would make a raw pencil feel scratchier than it actually is because there's not that insulation.
A raw pencil with nothing on the end does that to me.
Yeah. Well, when I use the Tennessee round next to the green belt, like the lettuce demonstrably darker, like in the Tennessee rounds, so I can see that it's like a harder pencil, but it. Yeah, but you know Scratchy wise. I can totally see that. Right. Like you're. There's less. Less buffer. Less layers between the. The wood and the. In your finger.
And is this, is this cheaper than the forest choice?
I have no idea how much a forest choice costs because I. I don't
know that it is.
So forest choice is. That's color pencils. Why can't I find them on pencil.com?
yeah.
Wow. Well, on Amazon, for some reason they're $30 a dozen.
I just saw that. Did they suddenly become a collector's item? Because I've got like 50 apparently.
Yeah, that's gotta be for a gross. They must have messed that out.
Yeah.
Set up. I hope it's very gross. That's pretty sweet.
Yeah.
Gonna stay away.
Go look that up. I'll report back.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, I was just curious because I thought forest choice were like under 10.
Yeah, yeah.
These are tennis, right.
For the green belts, nine or ten, something like that. But they're made in the usa, which is.
Yes, that is true. And that is very true. Speaking of the forest choice, Andy, what you were saying about the Tennessee round. I feel like the forest choice is a good example of how I would like the lacquer to be on the. The round.
Yeah. Yep.
It's got.
In that. It has no lacquer on the green belt. Oh no. In the force choice. Yeah, yeah, I see what you mean. Yeah, yeah. Just a really light kind of coating.
It's almost like a slightly opaque light coating on it.
Yeah, Yeah.
I guess this is kind of out of order, but since we're talking about the. The new musquerate pencils, I need to tell you about one of my. My fresh points, which is the. The new pencil term that I've come up with that is a very hyper specific. But I texted you guys about this.
You did?
Yes. This is so this. Just bear with me, folks. This will. This will take me just a second. But I've talked about it before that I'm not a huge fan of full hex pencils. Like the sharp corners on a full hex pencil are just not my favorite feel when I'm writing. I use a bunch of full hex pencils. And I mean I love the Tennessee Red and I use them, but I. It's not what I gravitate towards. And so since this one is totally raw and unlacquered, I got a little bit of a moment of inspiration and here's what I did. So I took. I took my hovel, which you could do this with a knife. But the hovel made it so easy because how flat it lays. Because that's the whole idea of a plane, right? And I took it and I ran it down every, every edge on the pencil all the way around. So I did all, whatever, six, six lines. So just one quick strip. And so it made these really nice, satisfying long strips of, of cedar. And then once I got that done, so I just did. I only did it once. I didn't want to, like mangle the pencil. I just as even as I could. I went six times around. And then I remembered watching my Ken Burns baseball documentary, which I watch every year. And in the Ken Burns baseball documentary, there's an episode where they're talking about Ted Williams. Like when Ted Williams became like a big deal when he was like a rookie and he was lighting up the league. And there was this old timey video that they showed in the documentary which was him like getting his bats ready for the game. And so he would put his bat onto this special stand or something. And they mentioned that he had it. He had the handle shaved down to a certain, like, thinner than normal to take off a few ounces of his bat to make him swing faster. And then at the end, after he rubs, he has a bone, like a femur or something, and he's rubbing. He's like boning.
Sorry, what?
Yeah, that's what, that's what it's called. He's taking the bone and he's rubbing the handle to like make it harder. And then the last thing he does, and this is what I did to my green belt, is he takes a bottle cap and he takes it and runs it down the handle as he rotates the bat around and creates like a texture on the bat for him to hold onto. This is in pre, like batting gloves.
He's like knurling the bat.
Yeah, exactly. So I did that to my green belt that I'm holding right here.
What?
You're a monster.
No, but you can't even see it. Like, it's not even. It's not even recognizable. Like, when you look at the pencil, it just looks totally normal, but it feels like it's. It almost. It feels like a semi hex now. And it also has like this really cool texture to it where it. It's really nice and grippy and I like it. And I've. I've named this. This. This needlessly extensive process is called teddying your pencils.
When. When I heard that, I thought of, you know, fuzzying them up, giving them A little hat,
right? Yeah. Put a little bow tie on it. Yeah.
Knit them a little koozie.
That doesn't seem like that would be legal to do to your bat, like, because it's not regulation anymore or whatever. Right.
Like how they. They do all kinds of weird, actually, because, like, I mean, some people, like, actually put grip tape on their bats. Like you can do all kinds of stuff. So I'm sure. Yeah. And they put top pine tar over their bats.
But.
And I don't think anybody else. I've never heard of anyone else doing this. Yeah, maybe they did, especially back in the day. And now they have batting gloves, so why would they do that?
But.
Yeah, but. Yeah. So that's. If you want a teddy, your pencil, you need a plane, a knife, and a bottle cap. And it's. It's only going to work with a raw pencil. Otherwise it's going to, like, make it look insane. Right? Like it'll be.
Yeah, yeah.
It's not insane to do it to a raw pencil.
You can't.
I'm teasing you. I'm sorry.
It works.
It's genius. So I've.
I've used things to polish things out of fountain pens that were very strange. So I can't talk.
Yeah.
So I have one more fresh point, and that is just that number 20 of Pencil Revolution came out, and I was going to do orange for the COVID and bought the paper and everything. And then I was back to school shopping with Charlotte, and I found Nina Astrobrights in coral. I think they call it live coral. Like, oh, my God. So it's coral and, like everything is coral right now because I have so much of this damn paper.
Nice.
Hey, Tim, why don't you go next?
Yeah, so I've already gone over teddying, so I don't need to. Johnny, do you need me to go over that again?
I think. I think I would like a private lesson with a YouTube video.
All right. I'll have an ASMR video soon. The shaving and the bottle cap shaving and everything.
I mean, I know you're joking, but I would listen to that a lot.
Yeah. So the only other thing is I've been doing a little bit of a hardback pocket notebook roundup which goes with our conversation today, which I'll kind of circle back to this. I'm not going to say too much about it now, but I ordered a few things from Jetpens. I got a Rhodia web notebook in the pocket size, and I got. That one's. So it's Got the Clairefontaine paper, and it's black with blank pages. That's the one that I'm using right now. I've got it right here in front of me. I also, for the first time, bought a pocket size of the Leuchtturm notebook, which I've never. I've never had one of the pocket ones, which is.
I don't think I have either.
Yeah, it is. It's one. I mean, it's really. It seems like a really nice notebook. Of course. I mean, obviously it would be, but it's. It's interesting that if you set this one, the Rhodia Leuchtturm and the Moleskine next to each other, the. The roadie is the fattest, Leuchtturms in the middle, and then the Moleskine is the thinnest. So it's been interesting using the web notebook because it's definitely. As opposed to the Moleskine, which I feel like you can get away with throwing in your pocket. This one's a little bulky to put in your pocket because it's got a pretty beefy cover. But the paper is amazing, though.
Do they make. So I have a goal book from Rhodia that's sort of like the Webby, but they call it soft cover, but it's not really soft. It's just not puffy. Do they make a pocket one like that? Because that could.
I believe so.
Perfect.
I believe so because they. I did not know what that meant, and I. When I. When I went through all the options to get this one, there were ones that said soft cover, but I thought it was gonna. I thought that meant it was gonna be like a Moleskin soft cover cover, which is like the super floppy ones.
Yeah, I think it would be that. It's just that the paper, The. The book is so beefy. It doesn't flop around.
Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, I might try that one down the road, but I really like this one. It. I mean, fountain pens on Clairefontaine paper is just like a dream. So I've been writing with everything in it and using some pretty saturated and heavy duty inks, and it's not showing through in the paper at all, which. Yeah, it just feels very. I. I feel like, you know how you have certain notebook pen combinations that you're, like, writing, and you're like, okay, so when this makes it to my archive at the. You imagine. You imagine this being handed down to your grandkids, and you're like, all right, something good's going on. Right here. Yeah, it gives. It gives you that kind of delusional feeling, which is. Which is nice. Which is nice. Yeah, so that's, that's me. So, Andy, how about you?
Well, I just have one fresh point, but it's a. Probably a. Probably a pretty big one. I. Last weekend we're recording this on Labor Day. So the weekend before this happened, I went to the San Francisco pen show and it was a lot of fun. I basically hung around all day. I did a seminar in the afternoon. There was about 15 minutes that kind of went through the history of pencils. Kind of like how we got from like lumps of graphite in Cumbria, England, to. To where we are today. And then we had a. Just like a show and tell or a tryout session. I brought a bunch of pencils and sharpeners and erasers with me and it was, it was pretty good. We had maybe like 20, 30 people in attendance. There were these really great little girls, like, they were probably like 8 and 10 years old who are really into Black wing and just like loves like blackwing volumes. So I, I brought like a bunch of Black wings with me and they were just so excited about trying them out. And I even brought a, like an Eberhard Faber black wing, like an old, an original Black Wing, just for people to try. And I gave it to the little girl and was like, hey, I want this back at the end. But if you want to take notes during the lecture portion, like, like, this is. This is an original Black Wing. And she was so excited. Like, I, like, she. She treated it so, like reverentially, which was like, so great.
So do you have a set of white gloves on, like on the table?
It's like you must. But yeah, it was, it was fun. It was just a good, just a good time. I made a few purchases. I bought a. Something I've been meaning to do since we recorded in Baltimore. I got a chat with Ian Schoen a bunch who runs the. Who makes fountain pens. He shown designs and he has this new one that is really, really cool. It's that same sort of pocket fountain pen size, but there's like little. Has a texture to it. And so when it's in your pocket and you're just kind of like running your finger along it, it just feels really nice. It's like a little like worry stone pen. So I bought one of those. I got the extra fine nib and I kind of wish I would have bought the fine nib. Now it's like, it's a really Scratchy, extra fine. Like usually it's. It's fine. I don't know if that'll kind of go away with. With wear or what, but. Got that. Also got something that I have some samples here for both of you, but I didn't actually send. You bought a couple inks from. From our friends at Van Ness. I. I saw Joe Crace from Gentle and Stationer. He was working the. The Van Ness booth. You know how Lisa Van Ness likes to kind of hire celebrities in the stationary community. So he was there. And then Kelly from Mountain of Ink, which is a blog. I know, Johnny, you reference all the talking about that.
Speaking of celebrities.
Yeah. I met, I met Kelly. She was really great. And they were both working the booth. And so I bought a couple Van Ness exclusive inks. They're made by Robert Oster, but for Van Ness. And I got the hemp color, which is, you guessed it, a green. A dark green color in a color I really love. It's, it's. It's a little. It's a touch darker than the Lyre Sauvage ink. It's like that same sort of like grassy green, but maybe a little bit darker temp. And then I also got this really lovely bright blue one called Blue river, which is maybe a tiny bit darker than that blue ink that you were using for your vacation, Johnny.
Oh, nice. That.
Very beachy blue. So big, big old samples come in both of your ways. Pretty here pretty soon.
Cool, thanks.
Yeah, I also. One thing I was really interested in, have not started using it yet, but I'm going to give it a try. Is the Traveler's Writing company, you know, who makes like the Traveler's Notebooks and the Midori products in the U.S. they, they have a new thing that has been out in Japan for about five years, and actually this pen show coincided with their US Release. But it's. It's a new sort of organizational system called a plotter. And it's kind of. Kind of like combining. Shoot. What was the name of that organizational system that had the. The rings and you sort of like snap it in. Franklin Covey. Yeah. Yeah, it's.
Doesn't Levenger have something like that, too?
Yeah, yeah, you're right. Levenger has. That has one too. It's. It's kind of like if you combine that with the Travelers Notebooks kind of philosophy, like, it's very modular like that, but it's very like. I don't quite know how to say it except to say that it's very Japanese Right. Like, it has a lot of just like little special things that you put in there and just a lot of little considerations and it. So, so I was at this booth kind of looking around and the, this lady, the lady who's the president of the, the US Office, I have to remember her name because I have a bunch of just like names rolling around in my head. She was, she saw me and we talked a little bit and she recognized me because we had chatted earlier about zines like, like some months ago and she, she was like, oh, you have to check out this, this notebook. So she brought me over and I talked to the, the, the hosts of the shoot, what's it called? The stationary Cafe podcast. They were kind of running that booth and they were like, hey, you like, do you wanna, do you wanna sample with this? Do you wanna try this out? I was like, hell yeah, I do. So they gave me a little. Oh, like folio, like a little leather folio to take home and, and try out. So it's. Yeah, it's really cool. I just kind of broke into it this past week and I have not really like, like dug into it yet, still trying to kind of figure out how they recommend that one uses it. But it's really gorgeous. It's just like really lovely stuff. They have these things called project managers, which are these little folders that you put within your binders and you can put your related pages, like your to do lists and your notes and things like that in there to keep track of them. I have zero idea if my life is clean enough to do something like this with. It's pretty messy. I'll be trying this out and giving a chance to see, but I'm basically beta testing this with. They're doing some users research interviews and some things. So it's very cool. It is again, gorgeous. I have no idea if it'll work for my life, but I will really enjoy trying it. Oh, also, also of note, I hung out a little bit with the woman who runs who's the U.S. rep for Maruman, which makes those demosyny notebooks. Yes, she's really cool. She is both a rep for Maruman and also a standout comedian.
No way.
Yeah, she's really cool.
That's super cool.
Yeah. So it was a success despite like, you know, walking around in a mask in a hotel for eight hours, which, you know, I'm glad, I'm glad we were like, everybody was all messed up, but it was, it was a lot of fun that some. The cool stuff there. Yeah, so that is. That is it for my. My fresh points.
Well, hey, before we. Before we move on.
Yeah.
I've got a challenge for you guys for the. For the next episode. So I was gonna throw this in now before we get into the main topic. Before I forget.
Yeah.
So. But I've got a question for you. What is. What is the worst pencil that you own? Like a recognizable brand? Like something you can buy, not like something you found like in a dumpster or like, I don't know why you were in a dumpster, but what's the worst pencil?
I would love to tease Johnny and say it's a Vulpex, but I definitely know that there are worse pencils than a Wolpex. Probably my least favorite. Yeah. My least favorite right now is that should be the Wolfex model. Like Wolfex. There are. There are least. There are lesser pencils.
There are worse pencils. Yeah.
The Bic Extra fun is pretty crappy.
Yes.
Are you familiar with the Bakex refine? It's that one that was like. Oh, yeah, it looks really cool. It looks like a. Yikes. But it's not. Yeah, Yeah.
I also have the striped ones which are even extra, extra fun. Look like candy.
Yeah.
Extra, extra fun.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's pretty bad. Johnny, what about you? Or some that like.
I mean, can I give the jerk the jerk answer? And that's that I don't have any pencils.
I hate that is a jerk answer.
Give them away.
Oh, because you give them away. Gotcha. Yeah, I will send you a crappy pencil if I have to.
You know, never accept a pencil from Johnny people. No, you know what?
Like, they're circulating the Baltimore City school district now.
Yeah.
Like math teachers. Like, yeah, we'll take all the pencils you. You have. Like, remember you said that because you're getting some, like, Disney cars pencils and things you probably don't want to look at.
You got some turd pencils coming your way.
Yeah.
Every once in a while you'll find that party pencil that works nicely, but, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
Life's too short for that.
But you had to pick one, Johnny.
Oh, I have to think about this.
Yeah.
What's yours?
So I had a few that are popping into my head that was considering. And one was. I am sorry, but it was the Wopex. That was definitely one that I had put on my list.
We're not friends anymore.
Because it's. It's. It's based on things that I will. I was just thinking about it. Like, what is Something that I just do not want to use. Like, I do not want to use it. I don't like it. That's one. The Rhodia pencil comes to mind.
Yeah, they.
Well, this is, like, the worst $3 you can spend on a pencil.
The later ones were, like, pretty nice, but where'd they go?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then I thought about the Triconderoga.
Oh, yeah. That is a piece of crap.
It's like, it writes so poorly. I don't know what they do. I don't know.
I don't understand.
Like, I just. So that was. That's one that I thought of. But do you have any other ones that come to mind before I give the.
Yeah, you know what the crappiest pencil is? The. A couple years ago, the Mexican made Ticonderoga number ones because they were hard as a rock and.
Yeah.
Hunk of crap.
And then the newer ones are fine. They're perfectly good pencils now.
Well, Tim, why do you ask? I'm a little afraid. I'm a little worried.
I thought that between now and the next episode, I want. I thought it would be just a fun, masochistic journey to force each other, slash ourselves, to primarily use a pencil we hate for an extended amount of time. I'd say it's the only thing you need to use because, I mean, I want you to enjoy your lives, too. So. So what I thought we would do for this is that. So this episode is probably going to come out on, you know, like, what, Wednesday or Thursday, like the September 8th night, something like that. So this will come out and then maybe by the next Wednesday. And if anybody listening has a suggestion for a pencil that's just kind of, like, hated. Because I have a theory that if we use something long enough there, in some ways, you might, like, adjust to it. Know what I'm saying? Like, you, like, you kind of adapt to it. Depends on what it is. But I'm just. I'm curious. Like, a little experiment. It. So if you have any suggestions, if you're listening, you have any suggestions, you can tweet them at us or comment on the post of the. The episode on Facebook or whatever, and just let us know some options. And then I think by Monday, we will confer in our group chat, and we will, I don't know, assign pencils. And then I just want to try this if you guys are up.
I am lucky that I have one of these big, big extra funds right here, because.
Yeah, otherwise, I'm sure I can scare one up somewhere.
Yeah.
Just Go look on the side of the road like outside of a school, and you will find one. Okay, so that's it. So, yeah, if anybody has any suggestions, let us know. But I think this is a little psychological experiment that see if even. Like the crappiest pencils. That's why, Johnny, that's why I chose the wopex, was so that I could be closer to you. Because I figured that by the end of a week, the end of a week of using that horrible, like, monstrosity that I would. I would better understand it and could actually use it. And then I would be like, yeah, Johnny, I get it.
Sort of has something.
If you use it on super junk office paper, it sings. It's perfect. Okay. That's what it's for.
Speaking of junk office paper, Good transition. You are on the transitions tonight. That is for sure. Okay, so for our. Our main topic tonight, talking about paper. Talking about unicorn papers. Papers that kind of are perfect and can be used in kind of any setting that you want to use them. So let's start out talking about what we look for in a paper. Like, so what are you using it for? What do you like to use on it? What are the things that are your kind of criteria for a paper these days? And Johnny, why don't you. Why don't you start us up?
Sure. So first I think about texture. I don't want to feel like I'm writing on glass, but I don't want to look down and suddenly my pencil is not sharp anymore. And all I wrote was my name. So, you know, somewhere in there, like a micro texture is what I'm after. And I want a paper that's going to work with a number two pencil from the 80s, which is not very soft and also a kind of wet, like, medium parker. So that's a tough bill. And also I think of it realistically, like if it's really expensive or hard to get, that doesn't count. That's like, oh, you know, my perfect car. It's a Corvette. Yeah, well, you don't have one. So what do you actually like? See, I think that those are the things. I want it to work all the time. I want it to be available and I want it to feel good.
Yeah.
How about you, Andy?
It's a good one. Yeah. I don't have a lot more to add to that, except I think so I guess if I just kind of like set up often what feels like sometimes good pencil paper and good fountain paper can sometimes feel at odds because, like a good pencil Paper has a little bit of tooth. Right. Like, it's something that can grip that pencil. Like Johnny said, I have kind of a micro texture that doesn't like, eat away the graphite. But the trouble is, is the more it kind of textured like that sometimes like with fountain pens, it can. It can feather a little bit. Like, it can either just straight up bleed through if you have a wet fountain pen, or it can kind of like feather out, which. Which is no good. So I think we, with the unicorn paper, we're looking for something that looks kind of like the best within. I would probably like. I would be willing to bet that I'm a little bit more. I don't know if elitist is the right word, but like, I'd be willing to pay a little bit more money for this. This paper than Johnny would. Probably not Like Tomoe river paper, which I guess is just going to become more and more expensive as, like, since the shop has shut down.
Yeah, I think that's. That's the upper limit for sure.
Yeah, yeah. But also, I don't. I wouldn't put this. That in this category because I don't think it's really great with pencils. So I. Yeah, yeah. So I, I would probably say my paper. And then I also think, like, something that is, you know, something you can find, it isn't just loosely paper. Right. Like, I'm not just getting this in a. In a pad. Like, I can get it in a notebook. I can get it in some, like, cards, maybe some different thicknesses. So something that's probably kind of versatile for use as well would be something I could add to that.
Yeah, yeah. You know what's interesting about this, like, think. Thinking about this. And even like our whole hobby here about talking about pens and pencils and notebooks and papers is that we basically have an obsession with getting things that are so good that they would have been normal, like 20, in like, or like 50, 60, 70 years ago.
Yep.
Isn't that, Isn't that weird? Like.
Yeah, yeah.
Our hobby is just trying to, like, if we were to go back in time and like, walk into somebody's like, office in like the 40s or 30s and like, look at their stuff. You'd be like, oh, my God, this paper is amazing. And oh, oh, these pencils, these are made in America and they've got cedar and all this stuff, they would have been like, get this, get this out of my office. What is going on? Like, this guy, like, you've been smoking the wacky weed or like, you like, they would just be like, what's up with this guy? So that's just, like. It's interesting. Like, as you guys are talking, as I'm giving. Getting ready to give my answer, that just, like, hit me that I was like, yeah, Basically our whole hobby is built around trying to, like, find things that are as close to time travel as we can with, like, stationary that we're using because there's so much crappy, crappy stuff out there that isn't just
based on the low end, the lowest price. Right. Like the lowest common denominator, which so much of the stuff is now. And, you know, you have your. Your Moleskine paper, which can be so inconsistent. And, you know, they're switching factories and materials based on, like, what's available and what they can. They can buy. Yeah. So something. Yeah. Something that just exhibits some amount of, like, craftsmanship.
Yeah. Those French notebooks that I'm obsessed with that are probably older than me and have rusty staples. They're like. They're yellowing, and the paper is thin and cheap, and you can throw any fountain pen at it. And it's perfect. It shows the sheen everybody's excited about.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're probably a quarter. I don't pay that much money for them, but yeah.
So, I mean, all the stuff you guys have said is definitely on. On my list. I don't want it to be in insanely expensive. Texture definitely matters, But I. I definitely. I don't like the tomoe. Ruby river paper is so nice, and fountain pens look nice on it, but I don't like the. How thin the paper is. Like, it's. There's something about that kind of tactile experience of it that I want a thicker sheet, like writing with a web notebook, writing with Claire Fontaine paper. It's bordering on cardstock, and some of these notebooks, you know, I mean, it's like. Yeah, not. Not really, but it's this nice, thick paper. It's got a good flip to it. I don't know. That's. That's definitely something that I'm. I'm looking for as well. And I also. One thing that is that I do look for. I mean, sometimes I don't. I don't always adhere to this because there are some points where I just kind of don't care. But if I'm, like, really zeroing in on a unicorn paper, I would want it to be consistent. It annoys me, especially when you're using fountain pens, when there are these. There's these papers that Are that are inconsistently pressed or whatever where you get to kind of close to the, the edges of the page and suddenly your pen like slips off. Like there's some sort of like invisible puddle of ice on that part of the paper and you're like what's going on here? Like I don't see anything. But it won't let me write. Won't let me write. So that would be something that I would, I would, I would want to avoid at all cost. If I was looking for my unicorn paper. It should be, it should be consistent. It should have that kind of happy in between texture and, and not be obscenely expensive. Which yeah, it's kind of a tall order these days with if you are looking for that craftsmanship, if you're looking for the. Yeah the well made stuff then sometimes you are going to end up spending silly amounts of money but trying, trying to avoid it.
I kind of wish that my friend Bruce, Bruce Eamon was here. He is, you know that guy who, he lives in the Bay Area. He, he does those paper tastings so like that, that thing at pen shows where he has like several pieces of paper and he encourages you to like try them out and kind of like a wine tasting, like figure out individual characteristics of you know, what's good and what's not. And he, he actually did one at the San Francisco pen show that I didn't mention just about like, like he gave everybody like eight pieces of paper who took this, his workshop. And he was like now try it out. Tell me what feels nice. Tell me what's like not what's not great. And he just encouraged everybody to just like, like try it. And so I used some fountain pen, I used some pencil just to kind of like see what was the best. And that was, that was really interesting and something I, we should talk to as we get more into it. But it's, that's all very like. I think he was. His was entirely Japanese paper, Japanese made paper which can be sometimes on the more expensive end here in the U.S. right. Yeah.
So what are some. I mean like we're going to talk specific papers and then we'll get into notebooks. But like what are some specific types of paper that kind of fit this ideal for you or have gotten close or whatever. And, and I know for me in some ways in my head these next two sections are so closely attached because I don't necessarily know what kind of paper is in some of these notebooks. But I know Johnny, I know you have something to say about this. So like, what are you. You've been. I feel like your house is. That's like if we, if I was to walk into your house at any given moment, it's going to be like that, that scene in Catch Me if you can when like the checks are flying in the paper mill, flying up into the air and you're just. So what are some, some fine papers that you're putting through your printing press over there?
So my new obsession is cotton or cotton blended paper because I want a little thickness, but I don't want it to feel like cardstock. I want, yeah, you know, like Baron fig paper I've described as cuddly like that, but softer and also less resistant to bleeding. So I was really into the HP Premium 32 pound or 28 pound, depending on you ask. It's sort of a printer paper that's coated and very smooth and people who are into fountain pens swear by it. But I've kind of started to hate it and I don't like to write with it, so I still make single sheet scenes with it.
But what do you hate it?
The last time I had it, I was writing with a Waterman pen that was so smooth it kept squeaking and skipping and it was not the pen and it was not the ink. So I mean, you know, that's not what it's for, it's for printing. So, you know, in fairness, I was trying to do the wrong thing with it. But so Southworth, they're owned by the same company that owns Neenah, which I use for most of my zines. They, they have a sort of line of like quote unquote fine papers. They do like parchment, resume paper. I don't know the difference between resume paper and fine paper if they're both 100% cotton, but the fine paper works better.
So paper.
Yeah, I've been using it because it
scans so well as to a PDF for you to submit your resume.
I don't even know. Frankie has a pack from when she was in high school that I tried out and it's not the same stuff as now. It's way better. But maybe it aged because we're not that young and the packaging is unrecognizable. Like, what is this? But yeah, I'm surprised they still make it. People are still into it. My current favorite one for like everyday stuff is their 25 cotton, 24 pound quote unquote fine paper with a wove finish because it works pretty well for fountain pens, amazing for pencil, and I just love it. And it's you know, it's expensive compared to typing paper, but that's not what I use it for, so that's irrelevant. It's like 25, 30 bucks for a ream. It comes in a nice heavy box and it does work really well on a printer too. And then I tried their 100% cotton 24 pound paper which is just absolutely dreamy and of course a lot more expensive. But I got to get some more of that. I just got some of their 30
used up all 500 sheets or is
a lot of it's gone. I just got some of the same 1 in 32 pound which is just like a towel for writing on.
It's.
It's when I got it.
A writing towel.
Yeah, the 100% cotton stuff. The box is noticeably thick and the other one is almost as thick. But it only has 250 pages. So like, wow, that's something. And I usually when I make notebooks I use this stuff because it seems to work really well for things you can print well on it and it cuts nicely, which I appreciate. And I just got some of their parchment to give a shot to. I didn't try pencils on it yet, but it really likes a fountain pen. And it's got a nice like Christmas. I think it would make some good like autumnal notebooks. But you'll mind if some leaves. So that'll probably happen. But yeah, if I find with playing with all these papers when I use a pre bound book sometimes I'm like, man, this paper's not that good.
Good.
It's just slippery. It's taking too long for my ink to dry. But the downside of cotton paper is it's so absorbent that if you're really into sheen and shading, it doesn't really happen. But it does make your colors look intense and it dries quickly and it washes away a lot or it's hard. It's much harder to wash it away than like, you know, Tomoe River. You've sweat on it, all the ink's gone.
Yeah.
So like this one, you know, it'll smear, but a lot of stuff, especially a good black ink, it won't go away unless you, you know, throw it in the ocean for six hours and somehow get it back.
Note to self. Yeah, don't. Does it say that on the back of the box?
It says it in the watermark.
Yeah, I did hear there's a watermark with that Southworth paper. Is it pretty noticeable or is it.
I'm. Some reviewers say it's noticeable. I don't find it noticeable. I don't. I, I usually write on a desk, not on a window.
Yeah that's just me. That's just me.
I might be weird.
My standing vertical that I my lit.
Easily transparent.
Yeah.
Use a tracing table. Yeah.
What are some of my, what are some of my favorites? I think I mean honestly I and, and so I also asked this question to like in the erasable group and got wow. A lot of responses. We got like 60 through comments but oh dang. Something that came up a lot which I just generally agree with pretty well. Aaron. Fig paper. I It's, I mean we all know, we've talked about here all the time that it's really good for pencils. So I continue to agree with that. It ghosts a little bit. I wouldn't say it like of course. I really don't use nibs that are thicker than like a medium point. So I, I, it could very well bleed with like, you know, thicker lines than that. But like it ghost a little bit through this through a confidant paper. It's not too bad and it really doesn't feather too bad which I really appreciate. I so, so I tried to like high end Japanese papers at the pen show last weekend and there were two of them that really, really stood out. As I was thinking about this topic, there's one that is called Cosmo Air Light. Have you, have either of you heard about this paper?
No.
Let me look it up. Air. Like people are kind of saying this feels like a, a good successor to Tomoe river paper. It's. It's a, oh man. It's. Look here it has a, it has a little bit of a surface texture. They. The website says it feels a little like a velvety dry erase board. And what it's. Yeah, I'll see if I can dig some up and send it to you guys. But I really love the way it feels on pencil because it has that texture and then also it's kind of designed for fountain pens so it works really well. I like that a lot. It's. It's something man. I'm gonna have to look up and see where it came from from they're starting to use it for like those high end notebooks like the misubi notebooks that are out there that used to be filled with the Tomoe river paper. I like that one a lot. There's another one that is, it's called New Chiffon Cream by Yamamoto Paper and Yamamoto, Taizo Yamamoto is that guy from Japan who is a paper maker and has like come to the San Francisco pen show and he's friends with Bruce and we, yeah, we've, we've hung out a couple times. He's really great. He's a paper maker and this paper is very creamy colored. Like it's, it's not quite as yellow as like the oh, that Ampad gold fiber paper that I like, but it is, it's very creamy and it is quite thick for, for that high end paper. And it works just both really lovely for pencil as well as fountain pen. I like it, I like it for both a lot. But, but also it is $18 for 50 sheets of it, so.
Oh wow.
It is not. Yeah, it is not, it is not cheap.
Yeah, yeah. All right.
Yeah.
For 50 sheets of it. How much? 18.
At least. least. If you want to buy it through the Van Ness website, that's how much it costs. So I'll read, let me, let me read the description for this, which I think is really great. New chiffon cream is a light cream colored book paper that is thick, light and soft book paper or high bulk paper was developed to meet the needs of publishers who wanted a paper that balanced portability with thickness. It's a paper with low fiber density that is very light for its thickness. Its lightness makes it easy to carry without being brittle. It's suitable for both printing text and images and doesn't allow for bleed through on the page. In addition to the great properties, it's PH neutral so it doesn't discolor over time, offering good archivability. In Yamamoto's ink tests, Sailor and Platinum inks dried almost instantly and shows no bleed through. Some very wet inks, such as J Urban inks, show slight bleed through. However, the slightly rough surface provides a wonderful feel when writing. What they didn't say is when writing a pencil because it's textured so they, they use in their notebooks, they highly recommend it with ballpoints and fountain pens. So yeah, really good paper. Too expensive. Yeah. So if I were to, if I were to pick a just like a more accessible paper, that Baron pig paper is really great. Trouble is it's, you know, it's all bound up in notebooks literally.
So yeah, we've talked about that before.
I wish, wish they would sell it. Yeah, like I think, I think it would sell too if they were to sell it in.
Yeah.
Loosely packs and even if they, I'm just imagining them selling them. It's like a loose leaf pack with the corners already rounded.
Like do they still have those big pads they had.
Oh yeah, the genius.
What are they called?
Strategist pads. Oh, I don't even remember.
They had like the two sizes.
There was, there's that period of time where I feel like they had something new every day. So I was just like, I, I didn't keep up with the names.
I, we, we have. I mean, what we should do, try to do is get, you know, get Joey just like super drunk and get him to tell us like paper supplier. Joey, if you're listening, we're coming for you.
If you're listening. We didn't just say that. Yeah, you're imagining things.
Oh, I don't see them on the website. Oh, no. Sad face.
I think, you know, the, the only paper that I mean comes to mind. And this is not like some sort of like earth shattering new, you know, right off the, right off the showroom floor paper like Andy is talking about here. But clairefontaine paper is. Oh yeah, you know, pretty, pretty incredible. And we've talked about it earlier in the episode, but it's in Rhodia Notebooks and it's is all Rhodia stuff. Claire Fontaine.
Yes.
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah. So that's the easiest place to find it. I've also, I've talked about it before. There was that they have their own branded notebooks. And there's that one which is pretty close to a perfect notebook in my book. There's that Claire Fontaine wirebound notebook that's like six and a half by eight and a quarter. If you, if, if you go on Amazon, just search Claire Fontaine. It's like the first thing that comes up. But they come in like a pack of three for $25. They're huge, these perforated page spiral notebooks and they're, they're amazing. So like I, I've had two of those and I think I bought my first one at a, at a blick or at some like art store in Atlanta. And I love these things. So I would, I would use them. Yeah, I do use it all the time. I always have one in my backpack.
If you live in like, they're just.
Sorry, go ahead.
If you live in the US or if you go on Amazon and look for clairefontaine, you can get the European stuff and they will ship to you free from Amazon UK in like a week. And it's like not that much more than you would pay if you were over there, which is awesome because clarifying taint stuff is pretty cheap. We just, I've Always get the import chart.
I always felt they were. They were just a little bit too coated for pencil. Like, I. I don't know. There's something about, especially the Rhodia paper that, like, with pencil just doesn't feel great to me, like a. Like a harder pencil. And then it's like a little. It feels a little smeary for like. Like, it feels nice on, like a darker pencil, but it's a little smeary. But I, I think I've just sort of, like, felt that way over time. But it is just fabulous paper, especially for fountain pen.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's. That's. That's one. And so this kind of is gonna roll into the. The next question. We've kind of talked about a lot of this stuff again, but. So bound books. Books where the paper we're talking about has been put together either by your. By yourself, Johnny, or something that you've bought. What are some bound books that you particularly really enjoy? The paper. Some of. We've already talked about. I. Yeah. Anyways, I can. I. I'll start. I'll just kind of roll right into it. And I've mentioned the Rhodia web notebooks, got the Claire Fontaine notebook. We've mentioned the Baron Fig. The only one that hasn't been mentioned yet is the Maramon classic spiral notebook that I talked about several episodes back. And these are those. Because there are those. The Mnemosyne notebooks. The classic spiral one, I think is just branded as Maramon, I think.
Am I right? Right. Yeah.
So you can get them on Jetpens. And it's really nice paper. It's really smooth paper. And they're not that expensive. They're like eight bucks. But it's. Of course, it's in a spiral notebook. Yeah, Here they are. So it's Maramont spiral Note, basic notebook B5. I love this thing. That's my. My current lyric, like working on song lyrics for this. That's my current notebook that I'm using for that. And it's really nice to work in a really well made spiral notebook. And that paper is just. It takes everything. So I, I really love that one. That's the only. The only kind of. The only offering I had that hasn't been mentioned yet. So what about you, Andy? What's. What are some actual bound books that you really enjoy for their paper?
I mentioned the confidant. I think that's just right up there. If I were to like. If I had a little like, spectrum that had pencil on one end and fountain pen on the other one at the other end. I would say it probably, like, leaned more toward pencil, but I just love using fountain pen in there too. Honestly. The. The Leuchtturm notebook just does for fountain pen. It does everything for me. I need it to do. It holds it pretty well. It's like a little bit. I would say it's a little bit thinner than your. Than a Baron fig paper, but I really don't get a lot of, like, bleed through or anything with that. Wow. Like, you know, John. John will appreciate hearing this, but the right notepads, those little. Little tiny bound notebooks. The right notepad is just a really good fountain pen paper. Like, it's. We know it's good for pencil. We talk about it all the time. Love. Love it for. For fountain pens as well. Especially Johnny. Does he. They don't use different paper for their different pure notebook, like, pocket notebooks, do they?
Everything's the same except where they note that it's different like that. That engineering notebook is different paper.
Okay. Okay, cool. Yeah. Like, you know, my favorite of the pocket notebooks that bright notepads makes is the kindred spirit. And I was just using that the other day at the pen show to kind of like, sample some different inks in and.
Oh, that's just older paper. They changed it sometime after.
Oh, did they?
Like, I want to say around Telegraph. Telegraph a little before or at Telegraph.
Okay.
It just got a little more ink friendly after that.
Yeah.
So it's like the new standard.
Yeah.
And Chris will not tell anyone where he gets it from. And I have asked him several times over beers, and he just kind of stares at me.
Okay, well. Well, while we're getting. Well, we're getting Joey drunk to tell us about his paper. Let's, you know, let's get Kristen on that as well. But I should do that. I. I did not realize it was different paper. I will try out the Kindred spirit next to something that's so, like, a little bit more recent and kind of check out the difference. But honestly, that one is great, too.
Yeah.
Their pocket notebooks are. Buy one, get one free today for Labor Day. Just saying. If you're listening to the recording. Sorry. But for you guys.
Yeah. So, yeah, those are. Those are kind of some of my favorites. And then I think that America the Beautiful field notes is also just an extremely good shot in pen paper, too.
Oh, that thing was so nice.
Yeah.
Yeah. I might. I. I really like Leuchtturm, but in the last year or two, I'VE had two that the paper was like way different. It was really rough. I almost emailed the company, like, what the hell did I buy? But in one case it was a special edition for Bauhaus and the other one, it was like a newer color, so I thought maybe they changed it. So I don't know. I mean, they're made overseas like Moleskine, so I guess sometimes they don't have complete control over what kind of paper they're going to get.
Yeah. The bulk they're buying, I'm sure it's hard to like keep that consistent.
Yeah. Like I was saying before, I swear that this new thick one is not the same paper it was last year. And then now Leuchtturm does make the. Really. They make the regular notebooks with the really thick paper. That's in the second edition Bullet Journal, which is really cool if you're not into bullet journaling.
Actually was at a Barnes Noble the other day and our Barnes Noble is now selling Leuchtturm notebooks. And they have the. The Bullet Journal books there, which I was kind of. Kind of cool and surprised to see those in. In the wild. It's such a big place.
Yeah. They're supposed to start selling 2.0 at other places, which would be good because every time I get it, I have to take my bone folder and sort of like repair the COVID after it shows up in the mail. Pretty busted up, but I'm gonna steal.
Andy's gonna bust out his bone folder.
Yeah.
I gotta add my secret vintage cayes that I get from France.
Yeah.
Because they're like unicorn paper and I have like so many of them stashed in my closet.
So like, I feel like if we were to come across a. A like warehouse with the cheapest crappiest notebooks that students used in school in like the 60s in America, it'd still be.
Yeah, yeah.
Like or even like. I found a box full of half used ones from some school. Like we'd probably be like, I'm using the rest of this. Like, this is amazing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. My dad gave me some number one skill crafts recently that like, it looked like someone used them for something. They were sharpened once and electric pencil sharpener and a couple erasers. He found them in his garage. So I don't know how old they are. Probably from the 80s. And they're like junk pencils that were probably 50 cents for the dozen. But they're amazing.
Born in the wrong time, boys.
I know I want to go back in time. This is why I'm obsessed with all of this.
If only we could have done this podcast in the 60s instead.
We couldn't have. Nobody would care. They'd be like, pencil, go to Woolworth and buy some.
Yeah, imagine they have an actual radio radio show about pencils. They'd be like, why are you talking about the like dumbest, most common things in the world?
Just, just an AM radio show about pencils.
Yes. Public access, baby.
Yeah, we're gonna have to do a pirate radio broadcast. That's one day.
It's like. Well, hello and welcome to the Pen and Pencil Hour.
This is sponsored by OMalley's flower makes the Best Biscuits Burma Shave. Alrighty. Well, so we've got, we've got like kind of zeroed in on some options for, for unicorn paper. I actually ordered some of that Southworth paper, Johnny. So I've got that coming.
So good.
In a few days I want to try to work that into my non existent letter writing life. I'm hoping to make a little more existent as I always paper.
You got to use it because you get so much of it. Oh my.
Let's hope so. But anybody have anything they want to add?
If you are in the erasable group, go check out, go check out the thread. I'll put a thread in the comments. Lots of really good, good discussion about some of the best paper I know. Our friend Les talks about the Wexford composition notebooks. Really, really love some of them. And also mentioned some of the Muji notebooks which I kind of forgot about. I love a Muji notebook and I'm like so close to a Muji but I just like, I never use it even though it's so great. So yeah, those are really good.
They market some as quote unquote premium. They have sort of like a perfect bound hardcover situation. Those are so nice for fountain pen and so cheap.
Yeah, I'm going shopping, but yeah, other than that, lots of good suggestions there.
Cool. And also anybody who's listening, make sure to let us know about your crappy pencil nominees to force us to use those over the next week or so. Sorry guys, but I just had to force this, force this to happen. All right, so let's, let's wrap things up. Johnny, where can people find you on the Internet?
You could find me@pencilrevolution.com and on social media at Pencil Uchen, Andy.
Well, you can. For the next week and a half you can find me crying under my desk because I have to use this crappy pencil or on the Internet. Andy, wtf or on Twitter. And Facebook is at awelfley crying on
Twitter about how I have to use this. And I'm Tim Wasem. You can follow me on Instagram at timothywassom and I'm on Twitter imwassum. We've got a Patreon account which you can find@erasable US Patreon. We put out extra content on there. So if you're interested in supporting the show, help us keep it going and pay for the web hosting fees and the the costs that go with doing this podcast, we'd really appreciate it. Again, that's Erasable Us Patreon. You'll get access to some occasional goodies, depending on the level that you're at. But you'll get access to our PEN podcast that we've been doing called Indelible. And I'd like to thank our Patreon producers which people who are donating. At the producer level we have David Johnson, Phil Munson, Nate Rebeck, Donnie Pierce, Bill Black, Miriam Bokout, Diana Oakley, Tom Keakley, Andre Torres, Kyle, Paul Moorhead, Andrew Squish, Ali Sarah Jamelia, Stephen, Frank Solley, Aaron Willard, KP Millie Blackwell, Chris L. Hunter McCain, Bob Ostwald, Michael Diallosa, Jacqueline Myers, Tana Feliz, Ann Sipe, Joe Crace, Measure Twice, Michael Hagen, Chris Metzkus, Bill Clow, Random Thinks, Jason Dill, Dave McDonald, Mary Collis, Alex Jonathan Brown, Andre Prevost, Kathleen Rogers, Bobby Letzinger, Fourth Letter, Kelton Wiens, Scott Hayes, Hans Noodleman, Jane Newton, Dave Tubman, Chris Jones and John Wood. Thank you so much.
Thank you everybody.
Support of the show. You can follow the podcast on social media at Instagram and Twitter at Erasable Podcast. We're also on Facebook. You can find our Facebook group, which we've referenced several times throughout this episode, at facebook.com group erasable. And please do join us there. You can like our facebook page@facebook.com erasablepodcast to get notifications about new stuff coming out from us, new episodes, and also maybe information about zines and things that we have in the works. And you can find the show notes for today's episode at erasebowl us169. If you have a second, you could rate and review us on itunes or recommend us on overcast. We'd really appreciate that. Thank you so much for listening and we'll see you in episode 100. Do you like our podcast? Most people like our podcast, but if you like our podcast, David will turn it off.