This transcript was generated from an audio file by AI, and may contain inaccuracies.
Transcript
Are you going to transcribe the handwriting into the Google Doc sort of as you go, or are you going to save that for later?
No, no.
Are you going to get Andy to do it?
Yeah, I'm going to just. Yeah, I'll rip these pages out of my five star notebook and put them in an envelope. Send them.
Hello and welcome to the 128th episode of the Erasable Podcast.
Yay.
Fresh from week two of NaNoWriMo. I'm Johnny Yamber and joining me are Tim.
Hello.
167 words a day. Wasum.
Well, I was.
And Andy corralling the chaos of four voices. Wellflee.
Hey, guys. Hey. What's happening?
So we're in episode two of three episodes for this month, famously, NaNoWriMo. So it's like all NaNoWriMo up in here.
We got NaNoWriMo going on. Let's just throw another episode in there.
So they always say that week two is sort of infamous for dashing many a novel writing dream because, you know, in week one you're sort of stuck in the excitement of I created this world and these people. And week two you're like, oh, crap, I have to make them do something. And a lot of people quit. But we're going strong. We're going to do our best to keep our brains on our podcast. And later on, Tim and I are going to join Ted and Adam from Take Note for a sort of roundtable brain picking that we actually recorded a week ago, right after NaNoWriMo started about how our projects were going and tips and some stuff that wasn't going so
well and some tips that I have not even followed myself of my own tips that I've given because that's just been like a survival process. You almost described my scenario, like, exactly. It's like, Johnny, you're looking into my soul here, where you said, do as
I say, not as I do.
Yeah, you got these characters, now I have to make them do things. That's what I was describing it today, that my NaNoWriMo novel feels like I have all these beautiful branches of a tree, but I don't have a trunk. I had to make my people. That's a problem.
You gotta eat.
You guys gotta hydrate. Come on, guys.
Yeah.
So before we get down and dirty, why don't we talk about our tools of the trade? Wanna go first, Andy?
Sure. I have been. So last week I went to the big Adobe conference and I usually try to find a good, like thing to read on the plane and I decided to by the Kindle Version of Season of the Witch, which is a really great book that's about the history of San Francisco in the 1900s. Like, it starts off with kind of the beatnik movement, and it moves into the hippie movement. And then it kind of talks about a lot of the things that kind of spawned out from there. So it was really interesting. There's a big spot in there, Tim, about, like, the Grateful Dead and, like, the big mansion they just live in in San Francisco. And you know how Jerry Garcia was just like, you know, guy you ran into in the neighborhood, he would, like, shop at the market and be like, oh, hey. And he's also like, you know, world renowned musician.
Yeah, he's like a cult leader, basically. Yeah.
There's a spot about how kind of during the big drug raids of Haight street, during the hippie movement, he would just like, you know, they would raid the big Victorian that the Grateful Dead people lived in. And there was this one lady who lived across the street who. She was sick. And people would generally be like, you know, bringing her groceries just in the neighborhood. And at some point, she looked out and saw a raid happening at the Dead house while Jerry Garcia was, like, ambling back from the market with his groceries. And she calls down as he's down the block and is like, hey, Jerry, thanks for getting my groceries. Why don't you come up here for a second? And he kind of got the picture and went to her house instead of his house. So he was, you know, saved from getting. Getting carted off. But, yeah, it's. It's really good. They talk a little bit about that. Oh, shoot. It's the Rolling Stones concert that just kind of like, turned into a race riot.
Oh, yeah, yeah, they had the documentary. What was that documentary called?
Yeah, I can't remember.
Yeah, I've seen it.
But, yeah, all the Hell's Angels were, like, on who are providing security for the conference. The concert were, like, on drugs and really amped up. So it was. It's. It's definitely like, some parts of it are just a really cool history of San Francisco, and some parts of it are just really terrible. So it's really interesting. The author does a super great job of, like, you know, this is a history book, but David Talbot really, like, gets in the head of the characters. Like, the real life characters are there. He talks about, like, you know, this woman who joins a Satanist cult and meets her. Meets this kind of like, creepy but quiet guy named Charles Manson. There's a lot of. And there I'm Kind of in the middle of the part about Patty Hearst, which like I can't believe has never been turned into a movie or something because it's so interesting and dramatic. Really good book if you, yeah. If you're, if you're interested in history, particularly the history of like San Francisco and music, kind of mid century music, it's really fantastic. I'm also watching the morning show, which is that new show with Jennifer Aniston and Steve Carell and Reese Witherspoon that's part of the Apple TV streaming service. It's really. Man, how do I describe this? Have you. Tim, do you have an Apple tv?
I do not.
Okay, I know you don't. Johnny. Yeah, if you have an Apple tv which is Apple's like Roku or Fire Stick or whatever, you have a trial of this and this is one of the shows on there and it's very uneven. It's kind of like trying to be kind of like Aaron Sorkin but without the cleverness of the writing. The writing is kind of terrible, like the dialogue, but it's very like it's trying to be very smart. And it's basically about like some sort of a Good Morning America. And Steve Carell is one of the hosts and he's, he's basically me too'd, right. Like he's fired for sexual misconduct and he's living with the consequences of that. And meanwhile his co anchor, Jennifer Aniston is, you know, trying to kind of control the, like the show and they, they hire another co anchor. And yeah, it's, it's interesting, but it takes itself. It thinks it's way smarter than it actually is turning out to be. So those of you out there with, with Apple TVs. Yeah. Watch the first episode and tell me what you think. I'm really interested to know.
So is there any way to watch that if you don't have one? Like, can you subscribe to an Apple plus channel on Roku?
Nope. That's the most Apple thing ever. Um, they, yeah, they, they want you to, to get the, get the things, the Apple things. Um, I mean you can get just the Apple tv which you can use without having other Apple devices. You don't need an iPhone or a computer or whatever. So it's just like basically a really nice streaming box. But yep, that's, that's the only way to watch it. It's kind of like Disney plus which is coming out as we record tomorrow.
Oh yeah, we're already pre signed up for that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody's Locking you. Locking you into their. Their service.
No. Yeah, but that Mandalorian. Or Mandalorian. That's.
Yeah, yeah.
It's gonna be hard to avoid that.
Right.
And all the Simpsons, too.
Gosh, I know all the Simpsons.
Yeah, it's gonna be tough.
We have that on the FX app right now.
But, like, right now. Yeah, until they take it away because it's on the Disney. They went to Disney. Yeah. So. And I'm writing with a black ring natural, which I sort of am coming back to after a few months away. And I'm writing in my. My field notes. Oh, since last time you recorded. I just started this American Elm Autumn trilogy. Field notes. Um, you talked about, Johnny, how some of the center spreads have come out. And I was like, oh, hasn't happened to me. The day after we recorded, my center spread fell out. So I basically just removed it and, like, had staple day. A day early.
But someone posted in, I don't know, one of the groups where they. They went into the center and they opened the staples and put some tape, like, over the staples, so the staples punctured it and then put the staples back on. I did that to mine and I realized it was, like, just about to bust right before I did that. So I saved it. But, I mean, it looks like crap. Yeah, I used, like, surgical tape.
Tim just posted a link in the. In the show notes to this movie with Nicolas Cage called Season of the Witch.
This is the adaptation.
Yeah.
With. With Ron Perlman as well.
I assume they were related.
Yeah, it looks like it.
I kind of want to take that and Photoshop that sword out and put a pencil in front of his face.
Oh, absolutely. Okay. So, yeah, that is me. How about you, Tim? What are your tools of the trade today?
I've been reading with NaNoWriMo. I am taking. So this is. This is sort of weird and backwards, but I'm speaking about some advice that I got from Ted from Take Note in our conversation with him a week ago that you're going to hear in a few minutes. That's confusing, but he just made the point of how he wanted to have. I think he got this idea from Austin Kleon. She's going to talk about having a book that you know well or a writer you love that you can kind of flip through to give you inspiration during the month. And mine, it's actually a book I've never read before, but it's a writer that I've read many, many times. That's Ron Rash, who I've talked about on Here before Ron Rash, who I actually learned has a pencil routine. And every day with his writing, every day he says he writes by sitting down in his. Especially in the winter. When I heard him describing this, he says that he makes a fire. He gets a big. He's from around here, so he's got a big cup of tea, iced tea. And then his dogs sit down in front of him and he has his computer, three sharpened pencils and a legal pad, which is I thought was interesting because he basically writes on the computer. And then when he feels like he's losing inspiration or he's kind of stumbling, he switches over to pencil and paper. But I'm reading a book by. Of his called the World Made Straight, which was also turned into a. Apparently a pretty good indie film based on the novel. And it's. It's really interesting because it's kind of like a backwoods pre Breaking Bad story, as far as I can tell so far, because it's a story of a. It's like young kid who stumbles across a. Like a. A backwoods pot farm up in the woods, like up in the mountains while fishing, and then tries to start stealing the stuff and then gets kind of tangled up in this whole pot growing and dealing world of his area. And it's a really good book and he's. It's just beautiful writing. So I've. I've talked about several before. Like, Serena was another one I've talked about and I've talked about his short stories a lot. Something Rich and Strange is his selected stories collection that I can't recommend that book enough. It's just perfect. So I'm reading that and I've been listening to for the last couple days. Love Letter for Fire by Sam Beam and Jessica Hoop. And Sam Beam is Sam Beam of Iron and Wine. People probably would know him more from that. But it's just a really good duo album of these two and Jessica Hoop's stuff on her own. I'm not like super into it, so it's a little. A little strange for me or something. But those two together, they have really good chemistry and they, they sing really well together. So that's a really good album. It's a good NaNoWriMo album, tell you the truth. It's good like writing music or a good, good music to write to. So I, I really recommend the album. And I've been. I've been sucked in to. Have you guys heard about Amazon hd? Like the Amazon Music hd?
Yeah.
So I was listening to the Conan o' Brien podcast a couple weeks ago and he had Neil Young on which was great, really good conversation. But somewhere in there Neil Young's because you know his big thing is about the like high fidelity music and how
you know, I remember that weird music player he put out.
Yeah, he tried with that. And he talks about how like the, the typical music that you get from a streaming service, he says that you're only hearing like 90 or you're only hearing 10% of what's actually recorded. There's just an, a huge amount of depth which you know, I'm not saying I can tell all that 90 but that's what he says is the, is the number. But he, he hinted in that interview where he's talking about like how we're not experiencing music in a way that like we'll really react to in a, in a true way because we're not really hearing it like we're in the room. He says, but there's something big coming and I'm really happy about it. And it ended up that it was Amazon that Amazon had released an add on to Amazon Music like the Amazon Unlimited that for five extra dollars you get something in there. The only streaming service that has it, it's called Ultra HD and it is the highest res music you can stream on the Internet apparently. And so you can get a three month free trial. Sounds like a commercial right now, but there's a three month free trial right now and then after that it's just like an extra five bucks onto what you pay. Which if you're a prime subscriber it's like 799 or something. But I've been listening to everything over WI Fi of course because it'd be a lot to stream like in the car at that super high and also unnecessary at that high definition in the car. But I've been listening to a lot of stuff and it's really, it's kind of staggering sometimes especially in headphones, like if you listen to like old live jazz recordings you can like hear the drummer breathing in the background. Like you're like drinks clinking in the back. Like if it's a live album, I mean it's, it's really something else. And horn players, you're just hearing like it's like you're hearing the spit. Yeah, it's in the guitar players. You feel, you hear their strings just like squeaking slightly on it's, it's really incredible. So anyways, but I've been listening to that album a lot and then listening through that Amazon HD Trial, which is pretty cool. And as far as watching. I am watching the Sopranos or the Sopranos for the first time. I've never. For the first time? Yeah, I think I had seen like three. Three random episodes, like, while over at a friend's house or something over the years. But my wife was out of town on a. For a retreat, and I was. So I was home with the kids for several days, and that was my go to. It's like one of those things that we've talked before about, things that you would watch on your own but probably wouldn't happen if you know your significant other that was there. And that's one of those that actually she would not be interested in, I don't think. And I. I guessed corre. But it is very good. It's a very good television show. If you haven't heard of it, you haven't seen it. But I'm really enjoying the Sopranos.
I've never seen it before.
Yeah, it's good. It's just. It's not. It's. It's a really kind of cool spin on the mob movie or like, the mob stories of, like, Goodfellas and all that. Because there's just this interesting subplot that you would. I think, Johnny, you would appreciate, and that is that, like, every episode is kind of based around Tony Soprano's trips to his therapist. So he's like this made man who's like the dawn of New Jersey, but he's having panic attacks and so he's going to therapy, but nobody knows that he's in therapy.
Yeah,
it's pretty great. And my reward for being alone with my kids and everything for four days and not getting any writing done because I was too tired at night. Because I was like, thinking I would get stuff done once they got to bed. But all I could muster up the strength to do was watch the Sopranos. But my wife. Wife brought me back a gift from her trip, which I was not expecting. And she brought me back a. She went to my Origami Inc. In Asheville, the shop I've talked about before, and she brought me back a Parker Jotter.
Nice.
With a like a dark kind of gunmetal bottom half to it.
I used to love a Parker Jotter. Yeah. There's one time in the past, probably like 10, 15 years ago, when they were kind of accidentally selling for extremely cheap at Walmart.
I remember that.
Yeah. And I bought several of them. They're really great.
They're great.
Ten of them right now.
Yeah.
Are you really yeah, yeah. This is. Yeah. And it's got one of the most satisfying clicks.
Plastic ones have a nice grip to them, which I appreciate.
Yeah. I don't have. I don't have one of those. This is the metal one.
I ordered one tonight.
Huh.
So they make 90s colors and Amazon has them right now for like 12 bucks for four of them.
Oh, really?
And the, the orange, which is not included, is only a couple bucks on Amazon right now. I'd like hunt mine down when. Because, you know, gotta have them all.
Yeah. Gotta catch them all. Yeah.
Evangela Chase's backpack.
So.
Yes, I'm right with that. And I put that. That Parker or the, the schmidt Easy flow 9000m refill that I. I love so much. I put that and it fit perfectly in there. So. And I'm writing in a Yosemite field notes.
Yeah.
How about you, Johnny?
So, you know, it's NaNoWriMo, so my consumption is slowing, but we've restarted the drills and Corfu because I want a long goodbye and it's over and it's. I'm sad about it. So we're just like starting the whole series over, which I think has annoyed my better half, but. So who can help it? And I just read a book called Driven to Distraction, which is about childhood and adult adhd because you probably know somebody who has it or have a kid who's acting funny and you're starting to wonder why. So if that's true, apparently this is like the ADHD bible. So that's. It was well written and quick read. And I'm obsessed with an album by. Of Monsters and Men, which came out in the summer, but like, I don't know, Spotify didn't tell me. I didn't know it was out until last week called Fever Dream. That's so good that I've just like been listening to it non stop for a week.
Have you.
Are you guys sponsors and men's fans?
I like about. Right. Yeah.
Icelandic kind of folk pop.
I liked the first album a lot and then I've listened to the new one and I, I enjoyed it, but I'm just so attached to the first one where they were a little less. Just a little more stripped down, I guess. And so I just, I still. When their new albums come out, I expect that. And so I, I like the new one, but I, I still just gravitate towards the earlier stuff.
Yeah, I forget their names, but the, the female singer does most of the singing on the new one, which is interesting because usually they're singles. The male singer does most of the lead singing.
So there's that. Yeah, I like her too. There's. And there's that, that, that. There's like four bands that all came out kind of at the same time that I, I, they all kind of run together in my head, but the Lumineers head in the Heart of Monsters and Men and I guess, yeah, Sons. But, yeah, those all kind of blend together in my head. But it's interesting to see how they've. Now that they all have like four albums out, it's interesting to see which ones have sort of like, changed, like, how they've changed because they all were kind of in the same ballpark while.
Yeah, they all make good writing music.
Do you remember when Avett Brothers and Mumford and Sons were just like, very similar and like, wow, how Avid Barters has changed and how Mumford and Sons hasn't.
Yeah, they've moved in such different directions.
Yeah. Yeah.
My friend had a theory that Mumford and Sons were only popular because it was bluegrass and they were British, which,
yeah, certainly doesn't hurt.
You know, they're good at what they do.
Yeah.
And they're. Which one was it? Mind where they use electric instruments. That was cool.
That Babel album is like, perfect. I love that one. The, the second one.
Yeah. So I am cheating because I didn't grab what I was going to grab. So I'm using a pen. Click, click. The inkjoy gel pens. If you get that giant pack from Walmart, there's a burgundy one in there.
Ooh, burgundy.
A burgundy one in my very beat up American elm book.
But it's burgundy.
It's very reddish.
Yeah.
Love a good burgundy pen. Yeah.
Yeah. So why don't we jump into fresh points before we play our long and crowded main topic episode, which is super fun. Do you want to go first, Mr. Tim?
And the main thing I would like to bring up that we could definitely just absolutely not forget is to thank you all for your amazingly generous reaction to our Patreon account, our Patreon campaign that we started very recently. We were, we're really touched by the amount of support that you all have offered to the podcast. It's been, it's been very validating and also very energizing to help us get some things in order and get some things figured out for where we go from here. We, at this point, at the point of recording, we have 48 patrons right now.
That's amazing.
Yeah, it's very, it's very overwhelming. And as quickly as that happened, we just can't thank you enough. So we hope that you'll continue to support us. And those of you who haven't, we'll consider it in the future. But we just really are thankful for you all. And I don't know what else I can say about that. Do you guys want to say anything about that? The reaction,
I think when we started this, you know, we talked about these tiers that we were going to like, figure out, and I was like, oh, well, we have this, you know, $10 a month tier with all this stuff, and it's very like, like aspirational. Like, I. I imagine maybe we'll have like one or two, like, really dedicated patrons, but we have what, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18 people at that level, which is just bananas.
Yeah.
And so, I mean, that just shows just people's dedication and how much they, you know, how much they love what they're. What they're doing. So what we're doing. So thank you. Thank you so much. This is really amazing. Yeah, I. We had such a much better reception than I could have hoped for.
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. For those of you who haven't seen it, if you want to consider supporting us, it's at patreon.com erasable. There are three levels. There's factory sharpened at $2 a month, the Stein I'm backstage at $5 a month, and the Nubbin stage, which is the $10 a month. And all of them come with some goodies from us. And we've got some ideas for some sort of special surprise goodies periodically that we might send out to people of certain levels. So this benefits include getting a note from us, getting subscription to Plumbago, and getting some erasable branded swag and producer credits for the show. So thank you so much for all of your support in these first few weeks. And we. Hopefully this will give us some flexibility to do some cool stuff and let the podcast grow, continue to grow in the future.
It's been giving us a good excuse to make sure we're recording every other Monday night at 8:30.
Yeah, this is true.
We have to answer to all these people if we don't get all these bosses.
Yeah, good for us, you know.
Yeah.
The pressure means we're digging deeper for ideas and coming up with stuff.
And normally, like, I'll let you in on this, we don't really like talking to each other very much, so.
Tim.
We really don't like. Tim.
Shut up. Don't bite me.
Johnny and I always Just on the phone and each other.
Damn, Tim again. He's so.
I don't even know if I'm the tallest one in the group. Andy, how tall are you?
Six? Two.
Okay. We're the same height.
It's definitely not me.
One little kind of bonus story about us making this Patreon account that I just to speak to that point of how this is giving us incentive to find some new topics and find some new ideas and just kind of push the podcast to something is that we got on the phone to have before we had released it. I was in the car driving back from, or I guess driving to Nashville to see Wilco and we had this conversation on the phone, which I think it was. Was that like the first time in like years that we've all been on just a regular phone call together?
The last time I can think of is when Johnny, you called us to tell us that you were having another baby.
I think hopefully I won't be doing that again.
Yeah,
it was definitely our longest conversation that wasn't recorded.
Yeah, you're right.
Definitely. And it was, I mean, and we were just like spitting out all kinds of different ideas that like we're kind of coming out of nowhere and I think just we're getting inspiration even from the idea of having an opportunity like this. So thanks again everybody for supporting us on Patreon. The only other thing I was going to bring up is my nanowrimo check in where I am currently in real life time, not in the the conversation you're going to hear in a minute. I am as of Thursday, when my wife left town, I was 400 words in the black and I have written 250 words since then. So in the last four days I've written almost nothing. So now I'm still over 10,000. And like it's all in the black in my head because it's 10,000 more than I've written in any other 11 day stretch of time in the last year. So I'm really thankful for that. But I've still got time and I'm still planning to make that time up as I go forward. But it's been a challenge and I've just been. I've been following my plan with the note cards and I've just been kind of writing random scenes here and there and hoping that I find some kind of through line down the road that I can use to connect it. But I really am feeling like I'm gonna get to the end of this month and I'm gonna at Least get close to winning or, you know, or to getting to the 50,000. And then I'll have a nice big kind of sack full of stories to work together into a novel somehow.
A big meal or a big glass of whiskey.
Oh, well, that's implied. But yeah, so I. So, yeah, so that's me. That's how. That's how it's been going. I've really been enjoying it. And I've. And it's funny, like, after about 10 days, the 1667 words didn't feel as crazy as it had before because I'd just proven to myself so many times that I could do it if I had just like a normal day. And then the weekend. Whoa. Hi, Asha. Geez. She's like jumped right up in my face like she's never done it. Jumped right.
It's like, give me pets.
Yeah, exactly. Okay. She's just come up to congratulate me for NaNoWriMo. So, yeah, that's all I got. How about you, Andy?
Well, I started off not thinking I had any fresh.
Fresh points.
Then I realized how many of them I actually do have. The first one I mentioned just specifically because there's a pencil tie in. Um, but so in my. My other life and my. My day job, so more of a. I guess more of an extracurricular. That's more related to my day job. I wrote that book with my friend Michael Metz about content, strategy and UX writing. And we have. So. So one thing I'll mention, by the time this is released, it will be available for pre orders. We're not going to actually have it available to ship until January, but you can pre order it. Hopefully in future episodes. I'll have like a little coupon code or something for you if anybody actually cares about this. But the more interesting thing for this show is the COVID The agency that Rosenfeld Media works out with for cover design got in touch at some point with me and Michael and they were like, hey, like, we're going to be working on this cover. What are some things you would like us to keep in mind? And Michael is also a huge wooden pencil fan. Like, the two of us just geek out about. About pencils. We should have them on sometime. That'd be fun.
Yeah, definitely.
So we were like, well, you know, our book is about taking complicated ideas and just sort of like deconstructing them into simple, simple ideas and simple words. And also, we both like pencils. So the thing that they put together, usually their cover designs are very like, expressionistic, abstract. Like, there's some sort of like line art or doodles or something that ties in. This one is a lot more, shall we say, cubist, still abstract, but it is a deconstructed pencil, which is really amazing. I think I'm gonna see if we can make this the episode cover art so you can see what this is for yourself. And I'll have a link in show notes to the book site itself. But check out this cover. It is so cool.
It's really awesome.
Yeah. And I can't. Yeah. I'm so pleased with myself. Well, I didn't design it. I'm so pleased with this book because it really is just like kind of personally special then as well as just a big accomplishment. So, yeah, it's very pencil related. I would love to turn this thing into posters or something. I don't know how to make that happen, but that would be super cool. Yes. Yeah. T shirt. So, yeah, check out that. The show notes writing is designing words and the user experience published through Rosenfeld Media. That is our book and the COVID is really amazing. I'll also mention this is. I feel like I've gotten on this show a few different times to say it, but we will Thangi. My friend Will and I are trying to bring back Dot Grid. Last time we recorded was like kind of part of the last round. He was visiting me in San Francisco and we were just hanging around and we decided to record a live in person episode. And we both had some beers
and
the episode was funny, but maybe not like the most funny structured episode you've ever seen in your life. We kind of had a topic. We didn't really have show notes and we were also trying to like Instagram live our in person conversation as well as recordings. So we're a little distracted at times. But yeah. So all this to say Dot Grid is potentially back. We just released episode 21. We recorded it and hopefully by the time this comes out, episode 22 will be in the books. We talk about video games versus tabletop games. Yeah. So that's at Grid xyz if you want to hear me talk to that other guy about sometimes. Also digital stuff, which of course we never talk about here ever. Yeah, yeah.
Keep that crap out of here.
Yeah.
The other two, Tim, it was when you were on hiatus. Will came on and talked to. Talked to me and Johnny and it was so funny because Johnny and Will just like live in different universes. Like Will's talking about all these, like this, these Apple productivity apps that he uses. And Johnny's just like, I Have no idea what's happening right now. So that was really. That was really great.
Got a pencil?
Yeah. I will mention. So, you know, I mentioned earlier, but I was in Los Angeles for the Adobe Max conference and Aaron Draplin was there. I think I mentioned that I was going to try to try to see him. So turns out, did see him. Bought a lot of cool stuff and saw him do a talk. Basically all the little tips and tricks he uses for when he's using Adobe Illustrator, when he makes all the logos that he has. So it's. It's really interesting because most of his designs rely on symmetry. You know, they're very like symmetrical and like all these like hashtag thick lines. And he gave some really interesting tricks that he uses an Illustrator and make sure everything's very symmetrical and very like, as he says it, mathematically precise in his kind of over the top, Draplin way. But yeah, he was fantastic. He was there. His wife Lee was there. She was. She was kind of maintaining the booth. There was kind of a reception line. Like imagine 15,000 graphic designers and how excited they all are to see Aaron Draplin. So he definitely had like a receiving line the entire time. I imagine he just must be exhausted. But that's really awesome. Right near his booth was a booth set up with several of the designers from the 59 Parks project. You know, the people who made the field notes releases, they had all of their posters on display and for sale. And what was really great, so I bought a couple of them. I bought the Golden Gate Recreational Area, which is a national park established in the 70s. And then also I bought a poster for the newest national park, which. Tim, you probably know what this one is. It's the newest national park, the newest national park established in 2019, which is the Indiana Dunes National Park.
No way.
Yeah, they have a poster for that now.
The setting of my NaNoWriMo novel.
Really?
Yeah, it's happening in the Indiana Dunes.
Oh, wow. Yeah.
Okay, good to know.
Yeah, it's. Yeah, I'm gonna pause it real quick. 4836. Johnny, can you hear us now? Yeah.
What was that about?
Where did we cut off for you?
Not that much.
Okay, that's really weird. Yeah, I was still going and I think. Tim, you heard me, right?
Yep.
Okay, cool. So I'm going to kind of just leave it in there. I was talking about some of the 59 Parks Projects posters.
Oh, okay.
Okay. And I'll jump back into that.
That was weird.
Yeah, yeah. Let me hold on a second. So this poster is really cool. I remember as a kid. I'm sure you did too, Tim. We went to Indiana Dunes State park, like, every summer.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. One of my best. One of my best friends, his family had a house on the Indiana Dunes. They're, like, in a town called. A little community called Dune Acres, I think it was called, which is off. Yeah. Anyways, and I loved going there. It was, like, one of my favorite places.
We would go with this other family that we were friends with, and we would stay at this. This hilariously kitschy, like, dive hotel called Al and Sally's. And the South Shore train ran kind of in the backyard of this hotel. And we would always put pennies down on the tracks to, like, you know, squish them. And I know it was. Looking back, it's a bad idea, but it had a really cool pool. And then we would also, when we would go to the dunes, you know, there's like, clay deposits there, and we would. I would always grab a bunch of clay, and we would essentially actually just, like, sculpt things out of the clay onto big, flat rocks and let it dry. And I think my parents still have some of those things. Cool. So much fun. So. So, yeah, it was a state park, and in 2019, it became a national park, which is super cool. And they have a poster. It's like this has this kind of, like, highlighter orange highlight color with like, a. Like a crane flying. And you can kind of see. See some of the dunes with the grasses in the, like, in the background. It's really lovely. Yeah, man.
They have to do an Appalachian Trail field notes.
Oh, yeah, that'd be cool.
We need some.
Yeah.
Attention.
Yeah. Cool. So, yeah, so bought those posters, met a couple of the designers. That was really neat. Yeah, they had the field.
Both.
Both they. And the Draplin booth had the field note for sale. So from. I don't think they had the Series D, but Draplin had the Series D. So I bought. I bought a pack of the fourth. The Series D National Parks. And then I also bought a pack of the newest XOXO field notes, which were there. And the last thing I wanted to mention. This is kind of more casual, I guess, but there's something happening in the Baron Fig fanatics group. That's really cool. So do you all know rickshaw bags? Are you familiar with that brand of bags?
Yeah.
So that is based in San Francisco. One of the guys, I think one of the founders of Timbuktu, left and started his own company. His Name is Mark Dwight and he's really involved in the, the San Francisco like pen community. He's like a huge pen fan and he I think recently kind of discovered parent Fig products and being a guy who like has a big bag factory like you know, at his office, he's been prototyping like non leather covers for confidants and for field notes kind of in the BFF group. They are, they're not for sale yet, but I'm hoping they go for sale soon. He's making them out of like the kind of. What's that material, Johnny? It's like the sale. Oh, sail material.
Weird X pattern. Ripstop.
Yeah. Rip stop. Yeah, they're really.
Colors are awesome.
Yeah, they're really cool. I've been hoping for like a non leather confidant cover for some time. Just not like I'm, I'm not a vegan but I also like prefer kind of the aesthetics of like something that's not leather. So if you, if you're in the Baron Fig fanatics group, go look at those and encourage Mark to put those for sale. Mark Dwight, who has been posting them, he's the, he's the rickshaw guy. Really cool. That's it for me for freshpoints. Johnny, what about you?
I just have quick. Couple quick things. I got to see Corinne from Pennsplaining last week who she's part. She's helping run the Baltimore Washington Pen show where we are infamously getting together to both pick at the show and podcast live and meet in person. So I think in a couple weeks I'll get to go down with her and check out the space and like behind the scenes stuff like we have to talk like audio tech, so that'll be fun and also stressful. But I know a lot of friends who are doing music, so maybe they know some stuff.
So.
And I also wanted to see how loud it was to see if I could talk you guys into letting Garudaface come and play our intro music in person.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
If I could talk them into it.
Yes.
But yeah, that'll be fun. I don't actually know where it is. I think it's somewhere near the airport, so not so much in Baltimore. We're pretty close. And speaking of Bear and Fig, they just came out with a new set of books that are New York themed which like seems a little like, oh, they haven't done a New York book yet. They're famously designed in New York, so they're a three pack of the Vanguards. In the flagship size, sort of a five with dot grid paper with three really cool covers featuring like, I guess, versions of New York, like the beach, the subway, and like, just people walking around. They're really, really cool. They're like easily some of my favorite ones I've done. You guys have seen these?
Yes. Yeah, I've got. I've got them in my hands right now, actually. I like them a lot too. I think they're. I think there's. And I could be wrong in this. I'm not. Like, I'm no expert on the New Yorker, but like, for some reason the style of the artwork reminds me of some New Yorker cartoonists or something. But they're very cool. My favorite is the. I like the subway one a lot. Yeah, it's my favorite.
I think they look really cool. And I passed on those just because, like, I don't have any space for the soft cover ones right now. But I love the way they look, for sure.
And they did a couple nice little touches. Like the box they put inside for your name is sort of squiggly.
Yeah.
Interesting little graphic on the back of each book inside. And the font they used for the. I guess it's a belly band. Looks really good. So these are. I mean, these are sweet. These are on their website right now. Thanks for the free swag from Beard Big.
Yeah. The COVID illustrations by. This is Josh Cochran.
Mm.
Yeah. So I think they're really, really nice. There's a. The beach one.
I mean, they're not in the habit of making a lot of ugly notebooks, but these are especially good looking.
Yeah.
Yeah. And so as a reminder, we're doing pencil of the month, but November is three episodes, so we're gonna go over it next episode. And it is. There's a link in the show notes in case you don't have it yet. The CW pencils. Baseball scoring pencil, which is. I mean, what are. What are the colors of the Nationals?
Red, white. Red and white. So, boom, there you go.
It was prescient. Perfect. And finally my nano check in. I'm at.
What's today?
The 11th. I'm at 20,663 words. So I could skip tomorrow and be a lulahead, but don't do it. You know, the days that it's going to be impossible to write are coming, so I'm just trying to, like, plug along with a little bit of a
lead
and I think I'm like, screwing it up because I'm still building the world and they're not really doing anything yet aside from having sex.
I don't know really.
I know what to say after that. So, with that in mind, before we move on to our main topic, which will be Tim and I talking with Ted and Adam from Take Note. Because all of us are in the thick of NaNoWriMo or Nana Remo. Sorry. And Rhymo. Damn.
What is it that Adam started calling it? It's like he calls it Nana Remo or. No, he tried to get, like, actually correct. What would it be?
Natural.
That's quite nano in my head.
The Narema. Yeah, yeah, that's what it is.
But we recorded this a week ago on the 4th, so I think things are going a little differently now.
We have more words total.
I don't know, more words, like, per day, but yeah. So enjoy the awesome, energetic check in.
It's November, and that means many things. It means holiday travel, large meals, colder weather, and a bonkers writing challenge called National Novel writing month, or NaNoWriMo for short. Authors who accept this challenge endeavor to write 50,000 words of a novel during the month of November. That works out to about 1,667 words a day, every single day for the whole month. Today we bring together hosts from two analog podcasts, Adam Webb and Tim, Ted Walker from Take Note, and Tim Wasem and Johnny Gamber from Erasable for a short crossover audio episode so we can talk about our NaNoWriMo projects at the beginnings of the challenge before the dreaded Week two doldrums hit.
Hey, guys.
Hey, Johnny.
We are also excited about about avoiding writing our novel, that we've decided to use this occasion to bring the four of us together and not write precious
nighttime writing when you have little kids. We're gonna spend it not writing for as long as it takes us to get to bed.
But should we identify our voices and then maybe say our word counts before we jump in?
That sounds good. Johnny starts up yes.
Okay, I'll go first. I'm Johnny and I'm at 8,519 words. I'm a little ahead.
This is Ted from the Take Note podcast, and I am at 5,933 words, which means I have to write 735 more words after we finish recording tonight.
This is Tim from Erasable, and my word count is 4684, which means I'm not sleeping tonight.
This is Adam, very relieved at Tim's word count because mine is 4795, which means I guess I'm pulling double duty tomorrow.
Well, as I recall, the advice from Johnny was, don't fall behind. Never fall behind,
or don't fall behind by more than a day.
Yeah,
I'd rather sleep
that. That ship sailed on day two, so. But I'm up. I'm up for it, I guess.
We got this, guys. We got this. I'm gonna be the. I'm gonna be the cheerleader from here on out. You guys are great. It doesn't matter that you only have 4, 000 words. You're doing amazing.
Thank you.
I feel productive. Yeah, that's for sure.
So we were going to take turns asking questions and then take turns answering the questions. That sound good?
Sounds good.
So I'm going to butt in front of everybody because my question is for the very beginning. So, you know, we're all busy and have a lot going on, as most people are, and we like to sleep, as most people do. So what makes you guys want to do such a bonkers challenge during a month that's busy for pretty much everybody who lives in the United States?
Yeah, I'll jump in. So I. I mean, I think we've actually each touched on it on our various NaNoWriMo episodes of our individual podcast, but I. I wanted to just fire this thing out. I feel like I've wanted to write something book length for a long time and never got around to it. The inertia of such a long project is something I've never gotten over. And so I thought, you know, this is. This is the time to do it. And, you know, I think getting into the nano vibe is. It's an interesting space because it's less about perfectionism and more about kind of blocking out this big. I don't know, this big thing. Thing. And I Like a quote that I saw recently as I was getting fired up was from Terry Pratchett. And I'm going to butcher it specifically, but it's something like the first draft is. Is a way of telling yourself the story, which. Which I've really taken. I've taken that to heart as being something much more, being generous to myself and saying, get the story out to yourself. Don't pretend like you're writing the final draft of your magnum opus. Just tell yourself a story. So that's the approach that I'm taking.
Taking mine's. The way that I talk myself into it is extremely similar, which, I mean, I guess I think a lot of people do, because, I mean, the whole idea of NaNoWriMo is to not worry yourself too much with. With perfectionism, luckily. But I think I'VE taken it even further. And just I. Somewhere I came across the term of zero draft. And so I am definitely, I think I talked myself into it by saying that I'm just gonna be writing a zero draft of an idea that seems to have some energy and kind of similarly, I just want to get something out to get that momentum going and hopefully carry it on to the future and at a less insane pace. And even, even though I feel like I'm a little behind, I still feel like that sort of thinking has helped me just get words down onto a page, which is a much needed confidence booster for me.
Yeah, for me. I completed Nano once in 2007 and it was, it's got to be one of my proudest moments, one of my greatest achievements. I never did anything else with the novel again. When I finished it, I felt like I'd learned a lot from the process and didn't want to go back and fix it. Wanted to write another novel having learned the lessons that I'd learned in that in November of 2007, seven. And of course I never did that. I tried Nano, maybe 2008, 2009, and only made it like three quarters of the way through. And, and I feel like it was a real lost opportunity because now I understand that, you know, and it's, it's in the book too. It's in the no pot, no problem book. Now I understand that, like the real work, I didn't do the real work. I did the first draft and I didn't take advantage of that. So
I first started doing it just because, you know, write a novel, it's fun. But now I just do it because it's fun at this point because, I don't know, you always have some hair brained idea, like once a year and then it takes you to like November 9th for you're like, wow, this is stupid.
Why'd I do this?
But by then, you know, you've done a lot. You're like, I'm just gonna finish it. So it's fun to say you did it.
I think, I think that's the part I have not totally synced up with yet. Is like the fun for its own sake. I'm still getting there. I feel like it's like a runner's high kind of thing or something where, you know, you, you battle for a little while and then you, then you get into some kind of groove. I think this being my first time, I'm still seeking that. And I think about like, you know, some of the podcasts where there's people who've done it like 13 times and it's, it's almost for them, it's like running the marathon every year. You know, you don't do it because something's going to come out of it. You do it because you enjoy doing it. And I think that there's.
Yeah, you don't, you don't do it to win the race.
And there, you know, I think that's where the community part kicks in. And to me, that's where the enjoyment of the conversation comes in, which is why I'm. I'm really having a fun time even getting this kind of different group of people together and just like talking creative stuff. Like, how often do you just like, really dig into like the creative process and, and how to flesh out ideas and how to, how to like really attack stuff creatively? It's kind of rare. And this is like a pretty concentrated context in which to do that. I think it's kind of awesome.
So I like to disagree with Ted.
It just in general comes naturally to him, I think.
I love the creative stuff. I love the community. I love listening to the last episode of Erasable Everything. And I have come to the conclusion that all of that and all of our prep for our show today and logging into the NaNoWriMo that will. The NaNoWriMo website that will be my downfall. Like, that that stuff is too addictive and too fun. And instead of listening to Erasable the last couple days, I should have just been listening to the music that I recognize makes me write because that's the stuff that. That's the stuff that will destroy me because it is so fun. Cheers, everybody.
So I, I'm, I'm interested in everybody's setup. And I think maybe I'll just, I'll kick it off with my setup as I, as I dive into this project. And I like, I have so much to my setup that I got like an extra canvas bag out of the, the closet, which is not something I was expecting. I have like my regular notebook. I got like a trash five star notebook to just literally like vomit out ideas that are like, in the car and I'm just throwing it down. I, I got like a, an Austin Kleon book full of motivational creative stuff. I got a Larry McMurtry book that I think Tim, you grabbed recently. I got Moving on, which is gigantic. That's why I need another bag where I just like. Yeah, it helps me to just dip into this giant sort of melodramatic book just to like, remember what A book sounds like. Because I feel like I tend to forget as I'm sitting there writing, like am I writing what a book should be? And then I can just like dip out and dip back in. So that's my setup is like a bag lady kind of vibe. Let's see. Tim. Tim, what are you rocking?
I have never felt more scattered and unsure of myself in the stationary and writing tools world than I have over the last four days. I have. It's crippling. Like I've gotten. I've spent so much time with this, all this crap, like all these pencils and pens and notebooks and apps and all this stuff that I just feel like I can't settle on one. I was writing on Wavemaker originally, which I was using and mostly enjoying. But then at some point one of my. Ron Rash, a writer I really like, I saw him talk somewhere and he, somebody asked him about like what he uses and he says like I pretty much always type. But then when I feel stuck I have to switch over to pen or pencil like on a, like a legal pad, which I really, really wish I had never heard him say because now I basically just am always flip flopping around. So I've been. Here's everything. I got a Chromebook with Wavemaker, Google Docs, whatever, whichever one I'm feeling. And then I bought a notebook to write in, which was kind of on a whim, but I actually really enjoyed it because I wrote everything on paper for the last two days and I've met my goal yesterday and then almost met it today. And it's a five star composition notebook, but it's an eight and a half by 11 size so it's real big. It's got a three hole punch and then you can like tear the sheets out if you want to, but they stay in there pretty well. I was worried they'd fall out. So I've been writing in that and I been carrying around a. For the last two days in my fanny pack, I've been carrying around a decomposition book.
Yay.
Like the small size decomposition book that I bought with actually when I was with Johnny in D.C. just the redwood, Redwood Creek. It's got a little cabin on it. It's cool and it makes me happy. So yeah. And then I've been writing, I will say mostly by hand so far, but of course 48 hours has passed and so I'm getting ready to switch back to a computer, but mostly writing with a, with a Bic crystal.
Are you going to transcribe the handwriting into The Google Doc sort of as you go. Or is you going to save that for later?
Hell, no. No, no.
Are you going to get Andy to do it?
Yeah, I'm going to just. Yeah, I'll rip these pages out of my five star notebook and put them in an envelope, send them off. Spare time. Spare time. But no, absolutely not. I don't think. I don't even know if I ever will. I'm not sure. And I'm sure I'll get into this later. That wasn't a sort of fatalistic downer statement. I just, I've come to a place of kind of comfy chaos that I'll. I'll probably get into at some point with how I'm, how I'm. How I'm approaching things now as opposed to how I was approaching them just four days ago when I was very confident in my, in my plan.
But if I was writing my stuff on, if I was writing it by hand in a notebook, I would spend the entire day just counting and recounting the words I'd written. Oh, that's all I'd get done.
My theory or my rule with that is that I think if you're going through the extra, like just terror, like the, the agony of writing by hand, like at a fast pace, you know, because sometimes it's just like you do feel it. I. I think you fully deserve to estimate. And so that's all, that's all I do. I can get roughly 250 pages or 250 words on a page. Sometimes more, sometimes less. And so every page I get, I give myself credit for 250 words.
Oh, that's nice. That's a good way to break it down, though. That's good.
The boys at Price Waterhouse Coopers are breaking out into a cold sweat hearing you say this stuff.
Yeah, I'm going to get a letter from Scrivener when I say that I've won. And they're going to be like, we were listening to your podcast and we think you might have been short. Yeah, we're taking back our discount.
I've been, I've been writing mine. So my, my notes are. At some point. I had a field notes for the. Specifically for NaNoWriMo. I lost it immediately somehow. So everything's been going in my just normal, everyday pocket notebook with the, you know, it's got a grocery list on one page and like the brilliant solution to the plot, the scene I'm trying to figure out on the next. And then everything else is in Google Doc tabs. Basically, so I've got the. The novel and one. And then I've got a notes document that really was intended to be notes or ideas. But so far all it is, and I shared this with you guys, is I. I find that I need to find a picture of somebody so I can write about them. So right now all it is is photos. Just like random photos I've found when I'm looking for characters. Normally I've got their. I've got their names first. So sometimes I just start searching for people with that name. Other times I, like, describe the kind of the look that I'm going for, and I figure out. And so I've got some photos without character names yet, and that's what's in my notes tab. And then I've got tabs with maps, which is mostly just not because I want to get it geographically correct, but because it gives me lots of place names I can use so I don't have to create new place names. And then I've got a real estate tab, too, so that at some point, I can describe a building. I also use a big, big Spotify playlist, not for the music, but just for names of artists to pull out first names and last names from that. So that's. That's my setup.
I have yet to figure out how Adam is coming up with so many characters that need all these different names. I have. I have a character and then his dad, who I have not given an name yet.
All my whole thing is just character names. There's no verbs.
It's just some kind of dang poem.
What is this? I realized when you. When you shared that app or you shared that document with us, the. Like with the pictures of your characters, I saw that I was, like, semi horrified because I actually did not have a good writing day today. Like, what I was writing, I felt, like, pretty bad about the entire time. I was like, this is garbage. This is garbage. That's garbage, too. This is garbage. And I looked at that document that you sent us, and I realized that the way. The reason I felt like my writing was so crappy today is that if I had pictures of all of my. All of my characters, male and female, the pictures would just be me with, like, different combinations of facial hair and hair length. It's just like one of those days where I just like, oh, that's why this is boring, is because all of these characters are just me. Because I'm, like, playing it too safe. So thanks for the inspiration. Yeah.
The protagonist is probably an old version of Me, in some ways, I think everybody kind of does that. I don't have a photo of the
protagonist, but, I mean, I'm feeling you on the, on the, like, this is all crap vibe. I'm right there with you. So don't lose hope. Keep at it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yesterday was great, but today I was just like, what is happening? Which of course, I was like writing at work, like in little pockets of like 15 minute windows and stuff. So it's not a good start. And. Right. I, I was also writing. I was attempting to write as I texted you guys, I was attempting to write at my son's basketball camp, which was not a good plan. That was, that was a terrible plan because I was constantly trying to follow his, you know, clumsy dribbling across the court as like these 6 foot 8 college basketball players were like, instructing him on what to do. And it was just way too entertaining to. To look down and write and write anything.
I think it brings up an interesting question about this whole practice that actually occurred to me today. I was like trying to do this same thing. And, you know, it's like, what if there's a flaw to the NaNoWriMo thing? It's like, is there value in trying to write words in the 10 minutes between things when you're, you know, you're out and you're, you're just putting a sentence down just for the sake of it? I think it's that it's a, it's. It, it brings into relief for me that it is important to carve out those longer times just because, Because, I mean, then that's when you write more words too, when you get that flow. But therein lies the challenge.
And it's just depressing if you're, I mean, that, that quantity thing does really. I remember that from when I did it the first time. And I think you guys kind of remarked upon it a little too, that the quantity over quality thing, as much as it is just about getting a first draft down there, it's hard to. It's hard to write the. You could get those first hundred words down there. But to feel good about it enough to Write the next 1500 words for the day is really tough. If those, the first hundred. If you've got a block anywhere in there where, you know, it's just BS Dialogue is what makes me feel that way. Like, I, I think the dialogue's okay, actually, but I just feel like I'm just cheating on like, the poetry of it or whatever. I don't know.
I listen I listened to your episode today, by the way, and I'm in camp with Ted. Like, that does not compute with me at all. The dialogue is easy thing, because all of my dialogue feels like it's like coming out of a Hallmark movie or something to me. That's like what my brain's telling me.
I wrote for the last couple years by hand and then just spent December, like not really being able to do anything with my hand. So like, halfway through the month, I'd be like, you know what? This is stupid. I'm torturing myself. I should just type. But then, you know, if you've already written half by hand, you're like, ah, the hell with it. I'll just finish this damn notebook. But this year I just have my Chromebook and Google Docs and that's it. And, you know, whatever pocket notebook I have in my pocket so I don't forget stuff. But it's boring. But I'm getting a lot of words done.
That's great. It's probably less distracting too. You read on. You write by hand. You don't have. Oh, no, you're. You're writing in your Chromebook. It's probably more distracting, but it's worth it.
Yeah.
If I.
Writing by hand, it's like, this pencil's pretty good. But like, you know, what if I got a short pointed, like, you know, tombow8900 and like, you know, half could be better. Get this nice balance. Like, then it's like, oh my God, why am I sitting here holding 20 different pencils? I'm not exaggerating. Like, I'm not getting anything done today.
Why.
How did I get to New York?
Why am I standing in a Staples right now? What happened? Yeah, so I think the. Something I was wondering about with you all is how you're like, I know we've, we've talked a little bit about planning and stuff, but as far as what you're writing on a given day, are you staying pretty, like, chronological through your story, or are you looking for kind of like outside influences on what's going to happen today? If you're kind of pancing it a little bit more? And because for me, so far, what's. What's turned, what's started to happen is that I have a pretty. I'm pretty happy with the general premise of my story. It's. It's not even. It's not a plot. It's more of just a general situation. I've got a few characters in mind. I have a, A few kind of high points of the novel picked out that are going to happen. And then I've got sort of the general sort of coming of age struggle of this thing because I'm working on a book which is. It's. I think it's a kind of a young adult novel. And so what I've. But what I've decided on this like, zero draft idea with inspiration is that, I mean, I've been listening to a ton of music and I've decided to just kind of let whatever in my day is kind of, I don't know, like, energizing me a little bit. Then I'm going to pull from that and let that dictate where that day's writing goes. Because I've. I'm getting closer and closer to coming to terms with the fact that whatever I end up with at the end of the month is just going to be this big, like, heap of parts, like spare parts that I can then use to. To reorder and fix into something better. Like. Like, for example, today I. I have not been able to stop listening for the last like 24 hours to the new Neil Young album Colorado. And there are several songs in there that just kind of brought. Immediately brought a couple of the characters to mind and kind of dictated some of the ideas that were going to happen today and then going into tomorrow on the note cards that I'm filling out.
So one of the things that I do, not exactly like that, but if there's a song that I hear and there's one lyric that grabs me while I'm writing or a lot of this happens, I'll go for a walk before. I'll go for a walk at a point where I'm stopped and I basically, on the walk, I'm like talking. I'm saying to myself, like, what happens next? What does this person want? What does this person want? Like, up like. But in panic, not like in a. I'm gonna inspire myself to come up with something brilliant. Like, I have no idea. My thing is kind of plot driven and not on purpose. And so I've got to figure out what happens next and what this person wants. But so if I can get. I'm listening to some music and I just hear a line and I'll just take that line and it'll be the first thing that I write when I sit down. Just some, like, poetic, I don't know, sentence or phrase or something and try to then work that into the dialogue or figure out where that works into it. I do. I am awaiting that moment and kind of dreading that moment where anything in the world, any article that crosses my desk or I'll look outside and I'll see someone, like, trip and fall, and then the next person I know, that stage is coming where I'll be so desperate for anything that all of the world will make it into the. The novel. But I'm not there.
Adam will now present his new novel, what's the Frequency, Kenneth? Dramatic reading.
They Pitchfork re reviewed Monster today, so that's very likely that there will be some Aria Monster review references in the novel.
This year I'm just. I sit down and make it up. This year. I, like, I've been completely pantsing it. Like, I. I had a sort of a title and a general idea. So every day I sort of stop in the middle of what I'm doing and sit down so I can kind of pick it back up. But, like, I don't have a clue what's going on yet.
There's a lot of sex that.
That's it.
That's about it.
So it's not autobiographical at all.
I'm actually. I'm actually, like, pretty well outlined. Like, I spent a decent amount of time in October actually kind of running through, like, what I wanted the arc to be and what I wanted to happen and kind of using that as a creative exercise in and of itself. Because I think one thing for me in creative writing is that. Is that I. I tend to lack sort of like, conviction or, or commitment. And so to me, I wanted to really, like, say, okay, this is where I'm going to start. This is where it's set. This is what's going to happen. He's going to go here and then there and then there and there and eventually end up here. Then this big thing will happen, then this. So I actually, it's not that I feel confident about advancing through the, the plot and the outline because I. I feel like I'm on these. I'm taking these tangents that are almost counterproductive to what I've outlined, but I'm just so nervous that I will not write enough that I'm sort of, like, letting myself go down tangents. But ultimately I'm. I'm sticking to. To an actual plot outline, which is, for me, kind of a radical thing. And I mean, I'm enjoying it so far because I think I do kind of have a sense of, like, all right, well, I'm gonna spend some time on this. But. But I do know that I will at some point hit this plot turn, you know, they will go here. Like, it's, it's. It's out there. Even though I'm meandering right now. So I'm kind of. I'm feeling pretty good about that. We'll see how it goes.
Yeah, I've got. I think I mentioned this on our episode and I didn't mention earlier when I was talking about tools, but kind of in a similar. Just like wanting to have stuff that you can go to when you need to. I am keeping a stack of note cards that I have just been writing. Some of them are pretty detailed, like three or four sentences, like, here's what happened, here's what can happen. I don't really care when I write it, and I don't even really care where it falls in it because I can work out the timeline stuff later. But I've got. I think I've got like 15 of those stacked up that I can work with over the course of the. So far, over the course of the month. So I feel like pretty comfortable with just grabbing one of those at any given point and just being like, okay, write that and then figure the rest out later.
Like, I found that even on day one, it was helpful to have that to just spark things and to even just remind me of sort of like creative brainstorming that I did two weeks ago. Even just to bring it back up and stir it up. It's. It's been really great. And I. I feel like I was working today and I realized I had totally forgot to add this huge plot device that I thought of and I was so psyched about, and I just forgot about it. And then I went back and found it in my notes and like plugged it all back in so it was like. I mean, it's like reference for myself even that I. Where I've like. I've forgotten my own reference points. It's. It's chaos out there, guys.
That. That index card thing, that sounds fantastic. And as you were mentioning it, I remembered hearing you talk about it on the. On the episode. And I started in the office while you were talking. I found three index cards. So I'll piece a few more together. But it sounds. I. I feel like I should spend the time doing that so that when I just completely run out of plot, I'm not broken.
I hope it works.
So.
So I mentioned the. I've been going on walks a lot. That has been one of the key things for me. The entire novel came together for me on Halloween late night walk. I had no idea up until that point. And on these walks, I've been listening to a lot of. I found that Sharon Von Etten has. There's something just to tune. I can tune it out just enough that I can think, but at the same time, there are these, like, lyrics that pop into my head and that they. One or two of them will end up in the story. So I was wondering if there are things that you guys have in the first few days that you've already found, like these totems that you have to go back to to keep the creativity flowing.
Does coffee count?
Coffee does count. Yes,
for me. You know, I mentioned it before, but this. This Larry McMurtry book, like, he's.
He.
I don't know. I think I found in him a voice that, like, I just read his stuff and it just makes me want to keep reading, even though there's, like, on paper, not that much happening. It's just people interacting and I. And I need that. Like, I. It's another one of these sort of creative shortcomings that I've noticed in myself over time is that I don't necessarily, like, push people against each other and have. Have them interact and react and analyze and overanalyze and, you know, and be judgmental and do all that stuff that makes it great. So for me, it's really. Is like I'll just Open to page 400 and. And read his. His fantastic prose about just people who don't like each other and love each other and are tired of each other and just. That gets me just a few sentences that will kind of remind me of what I'm trying to do. So that's it for me. It's just that book.
Nice. And that you've. It. That book is sitting about four feet away from me right now. And it's probably gonna come up and add to the 45 books on my nightstand tonight. I'm gonna do the same thing because I haven't. I haven't started yet. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. No, I'm going to Lonesome Dove. I'll pick something else. But I. One thing that's come up for me, which is something that's been an inspirational totem for a long time, is there's a. I think a fairly well circulated clip of Neil Gaiman talking that's on YouTube and somebody did a very pleasant, like, edited version where they take this interview with Neil Gaiman in a. I think it was an interview with the Nerdist podcast where he's talking about writing and they take what he says, his advice to writers, it's about, like, five minutes long. They take these clips that go together nice and just seamlessly, and they overlay it with the song La Vie En Rose, which, of course, is just a beautiful song. And, like, visual clips from movies about writers, which these days I just kind of have it playing in my headphones. I don't see that. But it is just some of the most refreshing writing advice I've ever heard. That's where, I mean, he's saying things like, when I'm writing a first draft, I have to keep reminding myself that it's not important. Nobody cares about my first draft. Nobody's ever going to see my first draft. It's just. It's just about getting it down on the page, which is just. It's helpful to hear it and then to hear it in. His accent is also comforting, but. And then he, at the end makes some. Admittedly, like, when I say this out loud, it's gonna. It's gonna sound awfully cheesy, but it always hits me every time I'm a sucker. But at the end, he says, there'll always be better writers than you and people who plot better and write better sentences than you. There are people that are better than me. But. But nobody can write a Neil Gaiman story. The way that I can is the way that he finishes the advice. And so it just kind of just reminds me that I've got to have, like, a beginner's mindset and find my own. My own thing, I guess, My own voice. I'm glad that I chose the word thing to describe my writerly ambitions.
Save. Save the good words for your novel, man. Don't worry about it.
But that's. That's the biggest thing for me, the big thing for. I've. I've listened. I've listened to that at least once a day, the last four days.
I'm definitely gonna check that out.
Ira Glass kind of has a talk that he gave that is not exactly that, but sort of similar, in which he says that the thing that young creative people don't realize is that because they have taste, because creative people tend to have taste, they. They're not going to like their early work because their early work is not gonna be good. But they've got. Because no one's early work is good, and they've got enough taste that it bothers them. And so they have to. You have to write enough to get to the point where you are finally, you're never gonna be completely happy with it. You write. But where Your, Your good taste doesn't turn you off from your low quality work. And that's a thing that I wish I had learned years ago.
I feel complimented and insulted, so that's good.
So as we're wrapping up, why don't we go around the horn really quickly and just talk really briefly about what our project is or what's next or where we're kind of stuck. So I'm stuck.
So I'll go first.
I have been spending almost a fifth of my time setting up the story, so I think at some point I'm going to stop writing backstory and make something actually happen. So, you know, I frequently do this. I write a lot of backstory and then cut it all out because I'm writing it for myself. But then, you know, for NaNoWriMo, you're going to run out of time, so you have to stop at some point. So that's where I am right now at this point.
Do you think that you're going to cut out everything you've written so far?
Probably like half of it. Too much sex. I mean, nobody has that much sex. I don't think so.
You're real. You're real Donna Tartt type. Johnny. I heard Donna Tartt say that she cuts out thousands and thousands of words.
I like deleting stuff.
I. I'm in a. I'm in a similar spot in this kind. The backstory kind of. I'm sort of like present and then looking back and sort of, you know, just dancing a little too. A little too nimbly back and forth between the two. But I'm currently. My main character is walking around in his childhood house and I'm. I feel like I'm spending a lot of time just looking at rooms and nothing is actually happening. So I'm. I'm. My next pivot is to. Is to shove him out of the.
The.
Out the door and into the world and start mixing it up out there. Tim, where are you at?
I am. My young adult book is kind of hinging on a sort of traumatic event that happens for a kid. And there's this, this kind of heavy conversation that happens between his mother and his grandfather as they're like, deciding what's going to happen as she's moving. So it's this kind of like, tense scene. And I, I am. One struggle I have is just moving forward, having not nailed that scene, even, like, gotten even close to nailing it because it feels so important to the rest of the book. So I'm just going to keep moving. But I can't. It's so hard not to go back and just keep working on that scene over and over again because I feel like it needs to, I need to get it right. But I, I feel like in, in my gut I know what it was trying to say and so I can always come back to it later. And then the other challenge I have moving forward is the looming boredom that is sort of present in my mind right now, I think is because my characters are too similar, like I was saying before. So I think I'm gonna try to think tonight and jot down some notes in my, in my notebook for some ways that I can just breathe some life into my characters by making them less like a 31 year old teacher from East Tennessee. So yeah, that's. Those, those are the two big things I'm gonna work on moving forward.
Watch out for that 32 year old teacher from West Tennessee that's gonna be coming down the line.
You'll never see it coming. Yeah,
so I, I somehow decided to write like a dystopian eco thriller, which is, I don't. I've never read anything like that. And I. And yesterday on day three, I realized that I'd really set myself up for not being able to add any humor into the book because it's all sad. So. So I had a note to write something funny that I put it that I'd written in this afternoon and I'm just like looking at the paragraph that followed the note to write something funny. And there is nothing funny there except that one of the characters was nice. That was the most joy that I could add to it. So I need to find a way to do that, I think. And then I just. Today my 4 year old had his, his hand against his head and was saying think, think, think to himself. And that's kind of. I'm just kind of constantly in that mode right now with trying to figure out what's coming next. So I think the index cards are a good idea.
So you want to button this whole episode up. So do we want to go around the horn really quick and let folks know where they can find us on the Internet? Because we got to promote our podcasts and projects. I'm Johnny from the Erasable podcast. You can find Erasable at Erasable Us. And you can find my blog, Pencil revolution@pencilrevolution.com the very creative URL. And on social media, I'm Pensolution.
Awesome. I'm Ted from the Take Note podcast that I do with Adam. You can find that podcast at Takenote space. I'm on twitter@twitter.com TedTakesNote I am Tim, also from Erasable.
And aside from Erasable, you can listen to my other podcast, the membership podcast, about Wendell Berry, the writer Wendell Berry, which the second season is going to be coming out probably around the same time when this episode comes out. So that should be coming out pretty soon. You can follow that on online at Membership Pod and you can follow me on Twitter timwassom and on Instagram @timothywassom.
Yeah, but did Wendell Berry ever write a novel in 30 days?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think probably he doesn't have a whole lot going on. He's just. He doesn't have a tv, so that would help.
I'm. I'm Adam. And you can. You can follow the My Me on Twitter at Take notepod. This was a lot of fun, guys.
Hell yeah.
Let's do it again later. Later in the process.
Hey, for. For everyone out there who's in the middle of it, keep going, man. Just don't stop. That's really the only thing. Right? Just keep after it.
Drink a lot of coffee.
Lots of coffee.
We'll see what you're saying in a couple weeks.
And as we mentioned, folks who are subscribing to our Patreon at the nubbin level are producers. So I'd like to thank this month's producers. Brad Dowdy, Greg Cockburn, Jamie Dupold, Kevin Egan, Terry Beth, Tiffany Babb, Alex, Jonathan Brown, Bobby Letzinger, Dave McDonald, fourth letter Dave.
Sorry.
Jason Dill, Johnny Baker, Kathy Rogers, Kelton Wiens, Larry Grimaldi, Leslie Truzette, Mary Collis, Random Thinks, Chris Jones, Dave Tubman, Dr. Professor, Hans Noodleman, Jay Newton and Stuart Lennon. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
If I butchered your name, let us know and we, we will definitely get your name right next time. And we are Erasable. What you have produced. We are@erasable us. We're on Facebook@erasable.com erasablepodcast on Twitter and Instagram at Erasable podcast. And you can check out our Fantastic group@facebook.com groups erasable. And this is episode 128, which you will find at erasable us/128. Can you guys tell folks where to find you on the Interwebs?
Sure. I'm @andy WTF or on Twitter and Instagram as awealthly. How about you, Tim?
You can find me on Twitter @TimWassom and I'm on Instagram @TimothyWassom and you can follow the membership at Membership Pod.
Awesome. I am@pencilrevolution.com on social media Pensolution. And once again, you can check out our Patreon at Patreon, that's P-A-T R E-O-N.com erasable. Thanks very much and we'll talk to you next time.
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