This transcript was generated from an audio file by AI, and may contain inaccuracies.
Transcript
The texture is like.
Yeah, quote me on that. Hello, and welcome to episode 81 of the erasable podcast. So you just realized that ink fades and runs, that your computer is less reliable than an actual cloud, and that analog is. And as TJ Cosgrove says, not dead. You find yourself realizing that pencil is the best medium with which to make your mark. But where do you start? Fear not. Tonight we will help you with this. I am here with Johnny and Andy, my beloved co hosts. And tonight we're going to be talking about beginnings and where to start in pencils. For those of you who are new. Guys, how are you doing?
Pretty good. How are you?
Excellent.
I'm doing good. That was one take.
Yeah, One take, Tim.
One take. Time. That's what they call me. Back in name one take.
2B.
Yeah, it's been a while. We got delayed on a couple recording sessions because of craziness.
I think life just got in the way.
It was a holiday, you know, we took a Labor Day weekend break.
Yeah, sure. Yeah, That's Labor Day weekend. And sickness and family visits and. Etc, break.
I don't know about you guys, but last weekend was literally the hottest day ever recorded in San Francisco.
When you sent that text to us about, like, how was the hottest day, I thought you were gonna say something like some joke about how it's 84 degrees or something.
It's. It was. And the thing is, is, like, for those listening at home who don't know about San Francisco, like, it's mild weather most of the time. It's really nice and therefore nobody has air conditioning. So. Yeah. So we had 106 degree weather and no AC. So thank you. We spent the day at the mall and then at the MOMA, the Museum of Modern Art. So.
Mall Walkers and MOMAs. Yeah.
Yep. Mall Walkers and Momas. It's a great suggested show title and band name.
Yeah.
Moma.
What would it be? Moma and the Mall Walkers. That's hard to say.
Moma and the Mall Walkers.
Yeah. Well, let's just. Yeah. Or do you have something else you're gonna say?
Oh, I was just gonna mention this. This suggestion came about just because I feel like in our group, our group grew to 2,000 members, which is amazing. But also. So people have talked about it there and then also I was at a pen show, which I will talk about a little bit later, and people were like, you know, I really want to get into pencils, but I don't know much about them. Do you guys have an episode where you just talk about the basics. And I think that we do, but I think it's like, you know, 70 or 80 episodes ago, so it'll always change.
So.
Yeah, and that's true too as we learn more things. And it's like, you know, that was before Black Wings volumes existed and before the right notepads, pencils existed. So yeah, I feel like this is a good like kind of like a, like a back to basics episodes so we can tell people like, oh, you want to get into pencils, listen to episode 81. So.
So I guess we can kind of function under the assumption that whoever is coming is already kind of in this world a little bit.
Yeah.
Right. Or is has the basics down or has, you know, knows what you can find at a big box store or something like that.
Yeah.
So we're so it's almost like the first step into like the deep dive.
Yeah.
It's like you walking out to the.
We know that you're pencil curious.
Yeah, yeah. We are pushing them off the diving board, so to speak with this episode.
You're staring into the pencil abyss and it's also staring at them now.
Right. So you know enough or you are interested enough to have joined a Facebook group or listened to a podcast about pencils.
So listen to 80 episodes. We're not going to tell you how to find episode 81. You just, you have to listen up to it.
Here we are.
But you've got, but you've got 130 hours to listen to before you get to that.
Go grocery shopping. Go to the bathroom. Just have a seat.
Cool.
Walk around the country a couple times.
Should we do tools of the trade first?
Let's do it.
I am consuming a mango Lacroix. Lacroix. However you want to say it. And what am I consuming in like my, my other life or like my media life? Yeah, I just got back. This is the most San Francisco thing ever. I got back from a big guacamole cook off party called a guac off. And our neighbors across the hall. Hey, Chris, I know that he listens to this. He organized it and there were more than 70 guacamoles competing and like 600 people there. And it was all free. It was this big like farmhouse mansion in Bernal Heights, which is a neighborhood next to ours. And it was incredible. And I. Everything's like, I've had a lot of salt today. I've had a lot of avocado, so just rehydrating.
That sounds awesome.
Yeah. Consuming media. I. I just got done reading a. A book by A guy named Robin Sloan, he previously wrote this book called Mr. Penumbra's 24 Hour Bookstore. And it's this.
Bought that the other day.
Oh, did you?
Yeah, yeah. Because Harry Marks recommended it, and it was like, a Kindle deal last week.
It's so good. So that book, I read that a couple years ago, it's basically sort of like combining mystical literary cults with Google and San Francisco and the Bay Area. So that guy just wrote another book called Sourdough, which just came out on Tuesday, last Tuesday. And it's kind of the same deal, to some respect. It's sort of combining this woman who works in tech in San Francisco, and she decides she starts baking sourdough bread and really loves it. And there's some, like, mystique involved, and it's pretty good. So just finished Sourdough. Super good. And, yeah, that's what I've been doing. And I'm writing in my campfire field notes with a Nataraj pop that has just passed the Steinbeck stage. So it's a little uncomfortable to write when. But what I did is I actually have one of those, like, little metal pencil holders, and if I put it on the back of it, it actually extends it a little bit past the Steinbeck stage.
So.
Yeah.
Nice.
How about you, Johnny?
We have largely just been catching up on Game of Thrones. We just finished the latest season with a very unexpected ending that you guys might have seen.
I've actually never seen an episode.
Yeah, never have any of the show.
Never. Eventually I'll watch it, like, maybe altogether, but at this point, I've never seen an episode of Game of Thrones.
It's getting so hard to avoid spoilers.
Two or three. Something like that.
Yeah.
Okay, so it wouldn't be spoilers. You guys don't even know who I'm talking about.
Yeah.
So, I mean, that takes a whole
different show by then. Like, everybody's dead and just replaced by someone else by the time.
Yeah, well, they've got different. Like, a lot of the stuff in the beginning was, like, this isn't a spoiler. Like, all the sexual stuff was, like, really sort of exploitive and graphic. And, like, later on, it's a lot more thoughtful and parsed out and sensitive in a good way. That's good. It's nice to see a show improve.
Yeah.
But I finally read Girl with a Pearl Earring, which I started, like, three times, which was, like, super good. The book was amazing. The movie was like, you know, you wish Scarlett Johansson would close her mouth and also like, Colin Firth was like, so miscast, huh?
But yeah, she gets that a lot. But she just catch a black for being miscast for something else too. Isn't she, like, she's playing some like, Asian character.
Well, this is right around when she was in lesson translation, which she was kind of good in, but I didn't buy her as anyone that could read a philosophy book, let alone major in philosophy. Personal talk, sorry. But yeah, moving on.
She doesn't look as smart as Johnny, basically, is what you're saying.
No, nobody's as smart as Johnny.
Nobody.
Finally you guys say it's kid. I am actually having water because there was a festival in town today. I was hanging out with Mr. Chris Roth and John Moses from right Notepads, and I. I need to drink water now. They came before that. I'm using a Thoreau pencil, which we'll talk about later, and Shenandoah field notes. Which one is this one? Chestnut oak. The dark green because it feels like fall.
Yeah.
So, yeah. How about you, Mr. Tim?
I am reading a couple really good things right now. The first thing is a book called Hannah Coulter, which I think I've talked about Wendell Berry on here before, but he's one of my favorite writers. He's a novelist, poet, essayist, and like activist and farmer. He's just this crazy, amazing guy, but he's been around for a really long time. I think he's in his 80s now. But I'm reading the last novel he published, which is called Hannah Kultur. And all of his novels revolve around this little town called Port William in Kentucky. And it's a really, really beautiful book. And it's. It's a. This one is written as a first person, basically like memoir from Hannah Coulter. This character who's been in. She kind of shows up in all the other books and it's in a really amazing story. So that is wonderful. That's one of those books that I've read all the other novels. This is the one that gets recommended to me more than any other. But somehow I still hadn't got. Gotten around to it. I'd read the first little bit, hadn't finished it, and now I'm just. Just kind of mesmerized by it. And I'm also rereading Pencil Perfect by Caroline. This. I think it's Carol. Carolyn. Carolyn, yeah. Carolyn Hoover. Yeah. But yeah, so I'm rereading it because it's so awesome and I just was needing a little pencil pick me up, you know, something to Just disappear into. Because I had read it. You know, we got like an advanced. And I read most of it on that and then like PDF and then I got the book and so I got to read sections of it. But this is actually the first time where I've read it cover to cover in the actual hardback version. Because I'd read. Read it on my iPad that first time. And I'm just loving it. It's so fantastic. And I. I was kind of. I don't know if you saw this on Twitter, but I am. I'm basically trying to force Caroline to let me read the audiobook.
Oh, yeah.
So getting that. Kidding.
That would be awesome.
Get a hashtag going. Because I was like, no, seriously, I want to do this.
They have to 10B audiobook.
Yeah.
They have to bill you as 10B Tim if they do that.
Yeah, I mean, definitely. Or at least in my bio for it. Yeah. So here I am just waiting on the call.
What's the hashtag? Should we just jump on 10 BTIM? And the pencil perfect.
Yeah, just a super long obnoxious hashtag. 10B Tim is pencil perfect voice something crazy.
The perfect pencil voice.
The perfect pencil voice by 10B Tam.
So I'm waiting for that call and
put it on tote bags like free John Bates record. 10B book. 10B. There you go.
And as far as watching things, we're kind of jumping around, not watching, not really watching anything of note, really. We're rewatching West Wing because Trump. But that's. That's kind of it. I did watch the movie the Big Chill, which I think I talked about in the last episode. Didn't I talk about the, the soundtrack? Because I was listening to the soundtrack on vinyl. So I got part one and part two of the soundtracks. All these like great Motown songs. And I finally saw the movie, which I had never seen before. And that was. Have either. Have you seen that?
I feel like I have, but I do not remember much of it at all.
It's one of those kind of like classic cultural artifact movies.
Yeah.
A lot of stuff around it. And it has all these people having their first roles. You know, there's like Glenn Close and Kevin Klein and Jeff Goldblum. Yeah, I forget the other guy's name, but yeah, a bunch of big name people you'll recognize. It's a good movie. It's. It's surprisingly dark. I was expecting it to be this kind of like light, light hearted, funny movie, but it actually was pretty, pretty grim because you. It's basically about these college friends getting back together for the funeral of one of their friends who committed suicide, and they're all like, stuck in a house together for the weekend. And it was. It was good, though, so I'm glad I watched it. But I am writing with a Blackwing 602 at the Steinbeck stage, and I am writing on the back of a used envelope, which I will get to later explain why there's.
There's something about. There's something about Blackwings, when they reach the Steinbeck stage, that they're just like the best of pencils of that size. And I don't know why. Like, I think it's maybe just the, like, aesthetics of it rather than if it's like, any more useful. But maybe it's just a feeling of accomplishment.
Definitely. And it has just a. It does just look good, like, proportionally, I don't know, with the size of the feral. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm loving that. So that's it for me. So how about we kick it into the fresh points, Andy? Yeah, go for it.
So I have. My first one is kind of a monster fresh point because it all revolves around the San Francisco pen show. And, and it was really fun. Like, I. So I think I talked about it last time that I was going to go and help Brad Dowdy from the Pen Addict with the Nakco booth. And, and I did. It was great. Um, and I just had a chance to, like, walk around and look at some things. What's really interesting. So I went to the pen show two years ago and it was basically kind of small. And it was mostly just like old guys in fishing vests selling, like, you know, antique pencils, things like that. But they've apparently grown a whole bunch in the last two years, both. And this year it was huge. It was just packed in that room. Brad says that's one of the biggest pen shows that he's been to. And there were lots of, like, other vendors besides just like, old guys selling old pens. There was some of my favorite of note. Um, there is a paper company out of Japan called Musubi, and they make these really, really gorgeous, like, wool covered journals. And the wool is like grown on a sheep farm and some off some island in Japan. And all of the people who work there have physical or mental disabilities. And the, like, the, the covers are just. They feel really nice. They look really nice. And they're also like, like 80 bucks. Like, they're not cheap. And the unfortunate thing right now is that they're all at the moment. Tomoe river paper, which isn't, like, great for pencil at all. Like, it's just, you know, nothing for a pencil. But I talked to the guy and he says that there are going to be other. Other paper types coming, so when that happens, I'll definitely be on board. So, yeah, that paper was incredible. I. I found this really great. So there's a fountain pen. There's a couple of different fountain pens that I like, guys. And I know this is a pencil podcast, but I have to talk about two fountain pens. One is this one made by a company called Stylo Art, and it is basically just a handcrafted fountain pen barrel that this guy in, like, this Japanese guy makes and he uses. Are you guys familiar with. Shoot, I'm gonna botch the name Urushi. The, like, the lacquering method. It is this Japanese method of lacquering, like, fountain pens and stuff that in, like, boxes and like jewelry boxes and involves, like hundreds of passes of this very thin lacquer. And it takes like months or something to do it. And it just ends in this really, really beautiful, just sheen. And they had these fountain pen barrels made, like, with Urushi lacquer. And there's this one that I'll post a link to that was a. Like, they had like eggshells in it, and it was just gorgeous. It was just so beautiful. And it was also sixteen hundred dollars. So I did not buy one. I picked it up and I was with Mark Cohen, who's in our group. He has a couple of these stylo art pens. And I was like, ooh, this one is great. Mark was like, you have good taste, sir. That is expensive of these fountain pens. So I met the guy, the guy who runs it. He was really, really great. Mark always brings, like, hand roasted. He roasts his own coffee. He brings coffee with him to these things to give to his favorite vendors. So they all call him Coffee Mark.
Oh, what a cool thing to do.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mark and I got to sit down a little bit. He showed me his, like, he keeps all of his fancy fountain pens in, like, this little, like, folio case. Looks like it's on the black market or something. Like legit. Like $30,000 worth of fountain pens in this little case.
When I was. When Johnny and I were at the DC show, it made me want to go get, like, a jacket, like a leather jacket, and like, make the inside of the leather jacket, like those folio things. When I go to those, just like, like open up my jacket. All these pens Lining the inside. Like, I like watches on one side and pens on the other.
So some. So Mark introduced me to this fountain pen I have seen pictures of before. I guess it's made by Pilot or it was made by pilot in the 70s. Pilot being a upscale Japanese fountain pen manufacturer. And they. Have you ever heard of the Murex pens?
Yeah, no.
So they're basically. How do I describe it? So the nib and the barrel are one continuous piece of metal, like one continuous piece of steel. And it's just really gorgeous and really streamlined. And the trouble is, is I guess if you like break your nib, like, you're just screwed because your pen's broken. But they were made in the 70s and they were just like collected and sought after. And then they stopped making them and they made they. In the 2000s. They re released like, like 9,000 of them called like the M90s or something like that. I'm probably getting all these wrong. And I'm sorry, pen people, please correct me. I'm sure somebody will correct me. Um, but really, I just thought they were beautiful. I love the streamlined look of these. These pens. And they're also like four to six hundred dollars. So I'm not going to get some, but I'll just look at them.
Like every anecdote ends with. But it's also like $700, so I didn't buy. Gosh darn it.
Pencils.
Pencils are cheap.
Like, man, these things are expensive.
They're two bucks.
Yeah, right. So, yeah, I also met this guy named Taizo Yamamoto. Bruce Eman kind of brought him around. And this is a Japanese stationary podcaster. So that was kind of fun. I get my. My picture with him and with Brad, just like, you know, two American and one. One Japanese stationary podcaster. And Taizo has this really cool business that he's working on with Bruce called paper tasting. And what he does is he sells samples of these really unique Japanese papers. And he has them in volumes. So he has like three different yellow papers. And one of them is like this really thick, textured, kind of like, like bubbly paper, I guess. One is like a thin, like newsprint paper, and one is like a more of a like embossed paper. And he. He just talks a little bit about it. And then each of these packs come with, I want to say like 20 sheets, so you can just like really just test them out. So he's going to release it in the. In the fall, and I'm going to take some pictures and review it on woodclinched because, you know, they're. They're definitely, like optimized for fountain pens and for like, art stuff. But I'm totally interested to know what it's like with paint, with pencil because, like, tomoe paper, like everybody goes gaga over that at these pen shows. But, like, they're just not good with pencils. So I'm not a huge fan. But yeah, that was fun. We set up a. Like, at the end of the pen show on Saturday, Brad had like this. This pen attic meetup and he had different stations, like different tables in this room where, you know, somebody. Anna was over here talking about, like colored pencils and somebody was over here talking about fountain pens. And I brought a bunch of pencils with me and set up a table, like a little pencil table. So it was really fun. And I discovered that the perfect sort of like gateway pencil for fountain pen people are the jumbo itoya pencils. So I don't know why. I think it's because it's like thick like a fountain pen, and it's also just really smooth and dark.
Super smooth.
Yeah. But like, there was this one guy who was kind of sitting.
Yeah, yeah.
He was sitting quietly, like at. At the end, and I was like, hey, do you want to try any of these? And he's like, I'm not really. I don't really like pencils that much. I'm like, challenge accepted.
So my hands. Messy.
Yeah. So I tossed him over this. This pencil I just freshly sharpened from that, that like, jumbo long point sharpener. The crank one. I can never remember which one that is. Oh, yeah, that one.
The dollar. Yeah.
133. Is that it? That's what it's called?
Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
Yeah. So I sharpened it up and gave it to him and he's like, ooh, this is really nice. So I was.
I was just using one of Those Jumbo Castell 9,002 B's.
Yeah.
I feel like that would be. Have like a similar.
Yeah.
Kind of effect because it looks so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a beast.
Sexy and fancy those things are.
So I wonder if there's. Yeah, there's like a thought around like, jumbo pencils and if they're good for fountain pen people. Because most fountain pens are like kind of that thickness. Right. So.
Yeah.
Yeah. So that was fun. I met a bunch of people. I met Micah Thomas, who's in our group. I met John Banion, who's in our group, several other people. And it was. It was just a really great time. Even if it wasn't specifically like pencil related, had sold a lot of not co cases, so. You're welcome, Brad.
Yeah.
Cool. So yeah, that was my, that was my pen show experience. I did want to mention that our group has, has hit a milestone. We hit 2,000 members, which is pretty amazing. Like, who would have thought? I think, I think you created the group like, like three years ago now, right, Tim? Like. Yeah.
I mean it set it up soon.
Yeah.
Right after we had started.
Yeah. It's so good. And yeah, it's an amazing community. So we're doing. I think by the time this episode comes out, we will have picked our giveaway winners, but we're basically taking. Picking three people who comment on a post after we reach 2000 and the three of us are selecting four pencils to put into these three different packs. So we're gonna have a. What did you call it? A Dreamy Dozen, Johnny? Magic Dozen.
Did I call it that?
You called it like a magic Magic Dozen, I think, but Magic Dozen. I like Dreamy Dozen.
Dreamers Dozen.
Dream the Dreamers Dozen.
I'm just gonna give you four different kinds of Woepex. Yeah. Now that would get really expensive to ship.
It would be. Yeah.
Weighed down.
30 bucks shipment.
Yeah. And yeah, the last thing I'll mention is the CW back to school pencil box. Did you guys get, get this?
Nope.
It's
terrible.
It's all right. I can't. I'm. I'm still getting them. They. This one was really good. Like I know that before it feels like it's been a little hard to reach to kind of like hit that value because like there's just not that many pencils in it. But this one has some really cool stuff in it. Um, there's this cool old fashioned handwriting tablet that has that old paper. You know, like when you're learning how to like write cursive, you have that, those lines with like, like with the dotted line in the middle. Yeah. This has a sheet of that. Yeah, it's has a lot of cool stuff in it. I'll, I'll, I'll refer everybody to Mike Hagen and D. Scolardi's unboxing videos of it. So that is it for me for freshpoints. How about you, Johnny?
So as I alluded to earlier, there are thorough pencils that have existed for like two years and.
Can't believe we didn't know about it. Yeah.
So there's a company called Analog Supply Company and they make a lot of like things to write on. So they also have These pencils, they look like they're made by Musgrave. I put a. There's a link to a review I just wrote this morning. They're like raw, full hex, super dry pencils. They're pretty nice, but they say Thoreau very small, and it's very near the business end. So pretty soon they will no longer be a Thoreau pencil.
That's a really weird place to put it.
Yeah. I mean, they look like they're just analog supply company. Very big and then Thoreau very small. I guess if you took the ferrule off a sharpen the other end, that'd be much nicer.
Yeah.
Which I will do next. But, yeah, they're really cool. They're one of those pencils that smell very woody, but they're not cedar. It sort of smells like going to ikea.
Yeah.
Or Home Depot. So that's pretty cool. And I just like, there's. There's an existence of thorough pencil. And my daughter went to school this week. Sad face. But it was a lot of parents, I'm sure, experience. They do a sort of, what they call it the communist classroom or whatever people call it, where, you know, y' all bring a bunch of pencils in. They put them in a big stash that's for everybody. Yeah. So we brought in.
She's not gonna do that.
Yeah. We brought in UB pencils because UV pencils are really good pencils. And I like that they give stuff to schools.
Does your classroom do that, Tim, or is it different in high school?
In high school, it's different. Yeah.
Okay.
They just done for yourselves. Yeah. Scavengers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She.
She got all. You buy composition books, even though they're kind of expensive, but they're so nice.
Yeah.
But she. She like took her own pencils and took my only pearl that has the trees and black before they've redubbed them, which I think we'll talk about later. Or restamp them in gold. So I had to do some trading to get another one back. But, yeah, Charlotte was like, very excited to have her own Blackwing pearl. That was very new to take to school.
Nice.
And a Ravenclaw pin, because she took the sorting test and got into Ravenclaw with Daddy. So we were matching Ravenclaw pins.
What is involved in the sorting test?
Oh, have you joined Pottermore? It's like the official Harry Potter web portal. So, I mean, you know, if you've read the books, at a certain point, you kind of know where they're going. Yeah. With the questions. But then like, pick an animal. And it's like, all these animals are like, I don't know. Green. Green owl. And then at the end, they're like, congratulations. You're like the most awesome house you're in. Ravenclaw. You're not brave, mean, or dumb.
So, like, people who get put into Slytherin, like, no, no, come on.
You're Frankie got in a Hufflepuff. I'm like, what? I didn't see that coming.
Which one is Hufflepuff? Like, what is there?
Exactly nothing. Cedric Piggoy and Newt Scamander. But he was everybody. Because they answer the questions. Like, in an ideal world, I would be this nice. But, like, no, be honest. You're not that nice. Like, you think that dumb people have what and get what's coming to them. That's terrible.
How deeply you thought about this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So in other news. So I mentioned earlier, I got to see Mr. Chris Roth today, and. Right. Notepads has a new product out, which I might have right here. They have a black version of their pocket ledger, which is really awesome. It's sort of matte black. Like, it's not rubbery, but it's rubbery. And the inside is gray. The inside of the COVID is gray. And the rest of the notebook is the same. The same price point and all. But, you know, if they made a reporter notebook out of that black. Oh, my.
How does you say it's kind of rubbery? Is it kind of like. Does it feel like. Like a drink, Local field notes? Like that kind of rubber.
Awesome.
It's like, it's papery. But something's up with the way they coated it in ink.
It's like an aqueous cover or whatever they call it.
I don't know what that means.
Okay. There's some cover that they call like an aqueous cover that. Like an ink that I think is like that.
Yeah, it's really pretty. I like it. Yeah.
Dig.
But yeah, nobody's got the new fall stuff out yet, so hopefully in our next episode, we'll have lots to talk about that. But yeah, that's. That's all I got.
How about you, Tim? Well, first thing I wanted to bring up was wanted to talk about the updated Black Wings. Like the flagship Black Wings, the main three, not the. The volumes edition. So if you haven't seen this yet, blackwing has updated all three kind of minor changes, but I think. I don't know, you guys can disagree, but I think they are changes that make perfect sense. Especially the Blackwing 602 which they've now paired with a pink eraser finally. Which is what everyone wanted. Yeah, always. I bet they're like. I bet they had to hold themselves back from being like, yeah, but we're kind of doing well selling all these packs of pink erasers. Everybody's putting on our. But it was a good call. And that's is about time, I think. Didn't it line up perfectly with them selling out the. The Chuck Jones edition or something like that?
I think so.
I think I saw that in the group somewhere. Somebody had mentioned they're like, oh, and they also have sold out of those.
So it's exactly the same thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's. Yeah, that's definitely, definitely a good choice. And then now it's just more streamlined where the pearl has a white, white eraser and the MMX has a black eraser. So I don't know. I just. What do you guys think? I mean they seem like. They all seem like good changes to me.
Yeah, I do think that they're. Well. And also the pearl is going to a gold stamp instead of the black stamp. I think. Yeah, they're just sort of like streamlining. Thinking about like the kind of continuity of these products. I'm hoping they're getting everything in line to release a fourth one.
Yes.
That is completely. I'm. I'm starting a rumor that doesn't actually like have any basis in reality yet. So I'm.
Your big news.
Made a lot of games.
I'm fake news. Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. And I think that, yeah, I mean they have to have something with this extra firm core because people just love it. And I think they don't want to sit around and wait for the like wait for the special editions to have it. But I think what the common like hopes and prayers are is that it's going to be a natural blackwing bringing back the sort of like 211 look but with a extra firm core. So that's. That's what the Internet.
Silver Pharaoh and pink eraser.
Yes. That's what pencil. Pencil Internet wants.
My only fear is if they come out with that, that would. The perfect blackwing and volume subscriptions would
just be like, why don't underestimate the power of people wanting limited things. Limited.
The power of war.
I'll still subscribe. I like them.
Yeah.
So I wrote about this on my blog, like late last night. I feel like now that they're all lined up and they took off the black Band it says Blackwing Pearl Blackwing 602 and then just Blackwing on the black one. Like I want that son of a to say MMX on it so bad.
I know you do.
I think it bothers me say like Blackwing Dark or something.
When we're doing our hashtag campaign to get Tim elected to do the voice of pencil. Perfect. I think we need to do get them to bring the MMX to.
You know what, when they do it, everybody's gonna rush out to buy the ones that are out now. And then everyone's gonna buy a box of mmx. We'll make them like a crap ton of money. Everybody's a winner.
Everybody wins. It's all figured out. We've got it all settled here.
And we'll only charge like a small royalty,
just a gross of pencils, you know.
Yeah, yeah, pay us in graphite every
week for the rest of your life. Every year. Every year.
Nice. So just wanted to mention that. And next thing was something I meant to mention on the last episode is I was going to bring up Exceed notebooks, which I know Michael Hagan's talked about in the group, which are, are essentially moleskin knockoffs that are being sold at Walmart now, but also kind of not, which is kind of sad. During back to school they had all these notebooks. There were, I saw three different sizes. There was a large, I guess, sort of 7 by 10 ish size that was a softback with a band. It looked like, looked like the softback Moleskine notebooks. And then there was an A5 size that was, you know, kind of thicker, I guess because it's just cheaper. And then when they make them cheaper, they tend to be a little, little thicker, a little chunkier. Kind of like a Piccadilly or something.
Yeah.
And then there was a small hardback pocket notebook and the prices were super affordable. I mean it was like 12 bucks for the big softback one. I think they're all lined, by the way. And then $8 for the hardback, a five and then $5 for the pocket size. And they're pretty good. Pretty good. Good quality paper. And I had gotten one of the pocket notebooks to take home because I always love having something like that on me. And so I just figured I'd buy it and have it as a, as a backup or air as a pocket notebook and waiting. But then I went back to Walmart with. To get supplies for my classroom because we get like a allotment of funds to use and all of the Exceed Stuff is moved to the clearance section. So if you have a Walmart nearby and you want to check these, you'll have to go to the clearance section, which is sad because they won't have them on the shelf. But the large xl, the softback size, are only five bucks, and so I might have bought a dozen of them for my own use and to give to students. So if you're interested in those, check the clearance section before they're gone. They're really nice notebooks. I really like them. The paper is pretty. Pretty decent. It's kind of inconsistent, kind of like Piccadilly, but. But overall, especially for using pencil, they're pretty nice. They're all lined, and it's pretty narrow lining, which I don't love that part of it. I wish they were just a little bigger. It's, like, even smaller than a college rule, sort of.
Yeah.
But. But they're cool notebooks, so check those out. Have you all seen the Game of Thrones pencil sculptures? Did somebody post this in the group?
I think so.
You seen this? Okay, so if you click on that,
it's like those things that go around where people, like, carve things into the lead of, like, the core pencils.
Yeah.
Yes. So if you. Yeah, so I put a link, and the link will take you to the one that is just. I mean, it's just unbelievable. Which is the. The throne. The actual sword throne. And they're all carved into the graphite on the end of a pencil. You can go through and you can look. And he shows even some, like, lapses of how it starts and how he finishes it, and. Yeah, they're outrageous.
He's carving it under a microscope.
Yeah. Unbelievable.
Yeah.
So it's. It's an article on cnet. So if you are interested in those pencil carvings or Game of Thrones or whatever, you should check that out, because they're really, really amazing. I don't know what else to say about them, but they're just. Those things always blow my mind. And then lastly, this is the reason why I'm writing on the back of an envelope right now is that I was given for my birthday a couple weeks ago, a book called Emily Dickinson by Emily Dickinson called the Envelope Poems, which they found this stash of poems that she written on the back of used envelopes, basically that she had gotten letters from people, and she'd save the envelopes and she would just jot these, like, crazy little minimalist poems on the back of these small envelopes. And so the book does. Is each page you Opened up and on the left is a photograph, very like high res photograph of the envelope itself.
Yeah.
And I would say on 95% of these envelopes, they're all written in pencil. Like all the poems themselves are in pencil. So it's really cool. Like pencil porn on the back of these envelopes. And on the right side they drew like an exact outline of the edges of the envelope and even the flap that's been, I guess pasted down and it's still there. And so they outline it. Exactly. Even the tears and everything. And then they transcribe her handwriting onto the spot where it is on the envelope itself.
That's cool.
Really awesome.
Did she, did she write them on the back of a notebook because she was in a hurry because she couldn't stop for death.
Yeah. Touche. Yeah, yeah, she was in a hurry getting upstairs or downstairs whenever. The only two places she ever went.
Yeah.
In her house. Yeah. But yeah, so she. It's really, it's a really beautiful book and it's a little hardback. I mean it's like, I think it's like 12 bucks on Amazon. But actually the Kindle book is. I don't know, I don't know if this is the normal price or if it's on sale, but you can get it for $1.99 right now on Amazon. So we'll have a link and so you can get it on Kindle and open it up on your. I assume if you open it up on your iPad or something or computer, you can see the color images. I would hope so that they would leave them in color and it wouldn't be some sort of weird E ink version of it. But still it is totally worth it if you love poetry, if you love Emily Dickinson. But also just to these really cool, I mean, 150 year old penciled poems on the back of envelopes.
Yeah,
yeah, check it out. The poems are all really short and cryptic and crazy. I love them. So.
Yeah.
But that's it for me. So why don't we get into the main topic now? It's time for our main topic. And today, like we mentioned earlier, we're going to be talking about a beginner's guide to Pencils. We want this episode to be something that we can point people towards if they are curious about kind of taking the plunge into good pencils and to help them know like what is out there, what's the first step of what's out there, beyond big box stores and things that you can find just out and about in town. So. Or at more common places, I should say. So we're going to talk about things you should consider if you're thinking about getting into pencils. They'll help you guide kind of what you're looking for and what would where to start in that sense as far as what kinds of things you're looking for. We're going to talk about pencils for beginners, erasers, sharpeners and kind of miscellaneous. And we've just each made a few choices of each that we'll justify and argue about as we go.
I'm sure it'll get really, really tense and somebody's going to just leave in tears.
Yeah, yeah, Obviously not me. Yeah. A failure if it didn't happen. Alright, well, let's talk. Start with the things to consider and let's start with the question of just asking what will you use your pencil for? So what do you guys think about that question? Like what kind of possibilities come to mind?
I think that's a big one for, you know, if somebody's like, I'm really thinking about getting into pencils and which one should I get? Like that's kind of a big thing. I ask, like, are you, do you think you're going to be writing mostly with this? Do you think you're going to be drawing mostly with your pencils? Because I think that will definitely affect your choices just because, I mean there are just like so many more different varieties of like pencils for drawing out there and for writing. It's really mostly about just like what feels best in your hand and what, like you know, how it feels when you're writing it down. Because like, you know, do you like a, do you like a darker mark for, you know, it's going to be a little bit smoother and more buttery or do you like something harder that you don't have to sharpen too often. So I guess when I think of that kind of first question to ask somebody when they're asking for pencil recommendations, this is the question I ask.
Yeah, even like what kind of writing? Like you're going to write in your journal or post notes or like long form writing?
Yeah, I don't do a lot of long form writing with my pencils. I mostly just write short form notes and to do lists and little like diagrams and things. So definitely like there's a previous episode with Harry Marks on it where he talks a lot about like, you know, he handwrites novels with pencils, which is crazy. But yeah, he. We basically talked about like the best Pencils for long form writing. And that's just not a big deal to me because I don't write more than like a page or two at a time.
Mm. Yeah. And then kind of to piggyback on that, you can ask like, how often are you going to use them? Like you're saying, Andy, like you, you use yours every day, but you don't use them a lot.
Yeah.
And that can affect it with, you know, if you're that kind of a user, you could jump right up to the black wings and like the sort of high dollar nicer pencils because you know that buying a dozen of those is going to last you forever.
Yeah, right.
It's going to last a super long time.
You're not going to wear.
Yeah, that's something, something to consider. And yeah, the art pencils, like whether you're, if you're an artist, it's like a whole different world where there are whole websites and things that are devoted just to that, where you're not going to find good long form writing pencils. You're just going to find art supplies. Yeah, basically. Which seems to be the. I mean, yeah, maybe the dominant world of nice pencils is in, is in art supplies. And then writers often are just borrowing from those.
Well, they definitely, I feel like, get, like they take advantage of pencils in different hardness scales. More like, you know, writers generally have sort of their preferred hardness, whether that's HB or 2B or whatever. But when you're drawing with it, you definitely like, you know, switch between some of those pencils because they leave different marks and they're for different purposes.
Yeah. It's almost weird to think about them as like the hardnesses having different purposes because it definitely for me is for somebody who just writes, I don't draw. I mean, it's definitely a preference thing where it's like, wait, are those all like textbooks on drawing will say certain things about those different hardnesses that they're good for different types of drawing or parts of a drawing. So it's even weird for me to think about that.
Yeah. One of the things to consider in here is where will you use these pencils or where would you use pencils typically? Like in a cafe or a car or a desk or somebody put, somebody put a cell in the, in the notes. Johnny, do you have any thoughts about like the differences in the pencils you would want to get between these different places?
So I think if you're, you know, if you're closer to a sharpener or desk sharpener or even, you know, a cafe where you have a space to spread out your crap. Yeah, you could get away with darker pencils, but you own the car. You want something that's not gonna break, not gonna get dull, because you might leave that pencil in there for a year before you remember. Oh, crap. I gotta sharpen the car pencil.
Yeah.
Unless you keep one in the sharpener in your car, in which case. That's awesome.
I mean, no judgment. I have one of my keychains, so it's kind of in my car.
Yeah, I have two in the car.
You never know.
Gosh. My. Just at my. I think I have one in the car. But I was sitting at my desk the other day at work and realized how many pencils I have within an arm's length or how many sharpeners I had within an arm's length. I counted, like, 13.
Wow.
Just like at my desk at school. Like, I still have some here, but I was like, I just lose track of them. I open my drawer like, wait, there's one. There's another one. There's another one. There are three on my desk. Hey, look behind me. There's one right over there. I was just like. I didn't even realize it. It was kind of shocking myself.
Yeah.
So when I asked my students, like, how many pencil sharpeners do you think I have on my desk? So give you a bonus point if you guess it right, but 13.
So this one I like. The next thing, people were asking me a lot at the pen show about the hardness scale. And they were like, you know, what does the number two mean? What does the HB mean? What are these things? Does anybody want to take a stab at the hardness scale? Or should I. Should I go with that?
Like, Johnny should take this one.
Yeah, the hardness scale. Yeah. Just explain the different numbers on the pencil and what that means.
So roughly, the hardness scale is going to be the varying ratio of powdered clay to powdered graphite before they, you know, mix it with water and bake it and then put in whatever oils or waxes or additives. So H is. I've always read that it was hard, but someone said it stored for hard muth. And then B stands for black, but someone also said it stood for something else. But let's just say it's H for hard and B for black. So in the middle you have hb, which is hard black. And then as you go higher in the H scale, you get harder because it has more clay. Most grades don't go past, like, six, but I think I've seen like 9H pencils, which are basically a nail. And then on the B side, they get a lot softer, which usually it was by artists. And a lot of people in our group seem to like up to 2B. And they usually go 6 or 8, sometimes 10 if you're Tim 10B, which is like almost pure graphite. And then there's F, which is between H&HB, which stands for fine or firm, which is like a number two and a half pencil, which we did a whole episode about. So, yeah, that's how they work. And then, you know, the softer they are, the more you're gonna have to sharpen because they're gonna get softer and get dull. And usually they smear a little more. The hard ones indent your paper. So even if we erase sometimes there's a little, you know, ghost of what you did.
Yeah.
So there's always a trade off. So a lot of people, that's. That's why there's. Everybody centers hp. It's a good amount of darkness, erasability, stability, and point durability.
And I feel like for generally, like, especially people in the group, they tend to trend more toward like a 2B. Generally. Like I, I know that I'll. If given the choice I pick up, I'd rather pick up a 2B rather than like an HB. But yeah, it's a. It's something to kind of look for. And. And oftentimes I feel like, I feel like if there is a pencil that is available in A to be. That is kind of a good sign that it's going to be a good quality pencil. Because generally, like, it seems like they care about your writing experience.
Right.
Like, there's a lot of Japanese pencils that are only available like in. In 2B rather than HB. And generally because they know that people tend to like it to be a little bit darker. So American pencils generally tend to be an hb. And of course, they use the American hardness scale, which is. That's a number two. That's where number two pencil comes from. And so I feel like generally like it's a kind of a good signal that you're getting a good quality pencil if you can get it in 2B, if that makes sense.
Yeah, yeah.
I've only seen a few American pencils that are rated grade zero to be.
Yeah, yeah.
Which is funny.
I like that there's some, there's some funky ones. So like a number one pencil is harder. Is that correct?
Softer.
Softer. Okay. Yeah. And then there's Also some really just funky. Like I think vintage Ticonderoga sometimes say that this pencil is number two and five tenths, which makes no sense because five, ten. Yeah.
Wasn't it a patent thing? Like, yeah, that was a good trade. Yeah.
They all had a different trademarked fraction or decimal. Yeah, two is so weird. Two and three eighths. That was.
Yeah.
Mongol.
Yeah.
It's like the opposite of, the opposite of standardizing.
Yeah.
Business things like, like everybody can have common language. It's like, no, we have that decimal point.
So you can't sue trademark.
So you can't.
My 2.47 will beat your 2.6 any day.
And one thing to note for people who have a black wing, but they just don't know much about it, is that blackwing does not grade their pencils. They will not tell you what, you know, level of B it is just because it's like, they just, you know, you don't have to do that. And I think they, they just like don't care. So.
Yeah, well, there's definitely something to be said for not really paying attention to that too. Just like. Yeah, instead of worrying about numbers or grades or like, this is a. Yeah, we like how this feels. This is good. Let's leave it here.
It's always, it's always kind of felt like an Apple thing to do. Like an Apple computer. You know, they, they're like, we're going to make these decisions for you because we, we know what we're doing and trust us, you know.
Right.
That's very Apple like philosophy.
Yeah.
So.
Yeah.
So I'd really be interested to know, you know, what, what you guys look for in a good pencil. Like, like even if it's not specifically, like a really high quality pencil, which can often be indicated by the price or whatever. Like, what if you're just like in a office store. Office supply store and looking at a pencil. Like, what makes you say, oh, that's a nice pencil?
Well, the centering of the core is a big one.
Yeah.
You're always looking to see if the, if the core is nice and centered because if it's not, and it's an easy thing to recognize, you stare at the bottom of pencil and if it seems like is off center at all, you're going to end up with some problems. Like, you either end up with it breaking as you sharpen because it's not in there evenly, or you're going to end up with. What's the. Do we use the term canoeing? Is that what we. I think I used to.
I think so. That's such a good term.
Yeah. Like, it's like if it's sharpening only on one side. So on one side you got a long exposed section of lead. On the other side, the graphite's covered up by wood that's overlapping. So it's uneven. So it's. Yeah. So you can see like it's canoeing because you're like scooping out.
Yeah.
Graphite. So that's. And that's a big problem because that's, that can be super annoying. So that's, that's the, that's the biggest one for me. And then of course, I'm sure you both would agree on just wood type. Paying attention to the, to the quality of the wood.
It's a, it's something like, generally if you can pick out a grain in the wood, like, if you notice like some grain in there, you know that it's not reconstituted wood. With, with the exception of our, our friend, the Wopex, which is made from like a, a plastic wood composite and therefore is supposed to like, not have a grain and look like that.
Friend of the podcast.
Yeah, friend of the show. Wopex friend and John, good friend.
So this episode is brought to you by the Wopex.
So some pencils, for example, the, the Bic extra fun pencils that you can find at Target, they have this like dyed, dyed colored wood. So like the wood in the middle is bright pink or something like that. And they, they look extra fun. But often when you see something like that, it's kind of a good indicator that it's probably not going to be the greatest pencil in the world. Because what happened with that wood is they ground it all to pulp, to sawdust and dyed it and then reconstituted it and pressed it back together. So it's not. They didn't use like the traditional like slat method where they have cedar slats provide. Provided by California Cedar Products. And then sandwich that over, over and under like a lead and then kind of carve that away so it's, it's easier to make that way. But also like, the quality often suffers because they generally use a harder graphite core so it doesn't break. And they use a special, they usually use like a special binding agent. Am I right about that, Johnny? Instead of just glue.
Oh, I don't know the binding agent. But usually the cores are like polymer based instead of ceramic base.
Yeah.
They're more like a really thick, really hard mechanical pencil lead.
Yeah. So just feel off yeah, they don't. They don't feel. It feels really cheap. Like you're just rubbing off, like. Yeah. Like plastic color instead of, you know, graphite.
So.
Yeah. So if you see anything that. Where you can't really detect the wood grain, or sometimes if the wood grain just seems way too light, like it's almost white instead of wood colored, that usually means it's kind of a cheap wood. There's some exceptions to that, but.
And even some of them, like, you can't see where the two slats come together.
Yeah, right.
Like, it's hard to tell, like where they were, where they were connected. Maybe they weren't. Maybe it was just molded around it. But.
And so I often think, like some people look at a pencil where you can clearly see the demarcation between the two slats. Like the wood grains are kind of going off in opposite directions and that kind of like, doesn't look great. But honestly, it's. It's fine because you know that it's. The process is good. They're just using probably different slats from different, you know, different trees or whatever. Yeah. So I'm always like, fine with something like that. Yeah, it does. I generally. In a ferrule, like in a pencil with a ferrule and an eraser. The ferrule, of course, is that metal clamp that holds the eraser to your pencil. Um, I'm trying to think if there's any like, good indicators of quality there.
No paint overlap.
Yeah. Like, sometimes it seems like they just like jam into the barrel and like it just gets just kind of sloppy instead of like properly clamping it on. But. Yeah, that doesn't happen.
Yeah, this sounds. This might sound like insane and really picky, but like, with which I know I'm in good company here sort of thing. But when I. If I have it, if I can, if there's an eraser on the pencil, I like, squeeze it. Yeah, that's good. Feel it. Because there's such a huge difference in like the really pencils that don't have good erasers. You can tell right away, like they might be like cut really sharply or it might just like, not really have much give. But then I always think of, like the perfect example being the general's pencil test scoring 580. Like if you're holding one of those, that eraser is always like so perfect. Like it's like supple, soft, perfect eraser. But because I like having erasers that, you know, work.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or like the way con Drog is like a little rounded off, like you hinted at.
Yeah, yeah.
They tumble them. They're a little softer. They work a little nice, more nicely.
So this is, I guess, a. A thing that's kind of a good. A good measure of if a pencil company is like detail oriented and thinking about sort of the aesthetics of their pencil is if this is something. I always think if the feral has like a little stripe of color on it. So kind of like a Ticonderoga. Even though at this point that's kind of their trademark. So they might be an exception. But, you know, like the golden bears have a, like a little color stripe on their fair rule. A couple others do. I always think that's just a good indicator that. But they're kind of like they're going the extra mile to add a little, like, pop of color and making something unique. So.
Yeah.
And it's not often you see that.
But as far as markings. Markings as well. If you are somewhere and you're looking at pencils and you see like this cute little set of pencils and there's nothing on them. I feel like usually if there's nothing written on the side, there's no markings, there's no. Nobody's taken ownership of it. That. That's probably not a good sign. They're probably gonna be. And not, not all the time, of course, but you check those other things we're talking about, but, like, they're probably gonna be kind of crappy. The, the best pencils. I mean, you think about. I mean, Faber Castell comes to mind because it seems like there's so much written on the side. You know, it's like, so busy and there's all this stuff going on. And that's because they, they're proud of their work and they want you to know exactly what you're using.
Yeah, they sign it.
You get the, the. The number of the type of pencil, like the model number or whatever, and then the hardness level and then the name. And it's usually got some kind of cool imprint or whatever. So.
Yeah, I, I like to think, like, unlike fountain pens, like, people. People who like fountain pens usually know, like, exactly where their fountain pen came from, who made it, where their ink came from, all this stuff. And one of the things I tell people is, you know, the world of pencil manufacturing is much. It's much shadier than that. Like, often, like, you don't know who supplied the wood and who supplied like, that wood to, like, where the graphite came from and then who put that together. And then who put the imprint on it and like it, there's just a lot more involved. And I kind of explain it. People, if you've ever taken an economics class, they probably read that Milton Friedman essay, eye Pencil. That's basically about how a pencil is sort of the perfect representation of a global economy, because no one person can make a pencil. And I usually tell them so. It's good and bad. It takes a village, a global village, to make a pencil. But at the same time, sometimes you can't really tightly control your supply chain. And, you know, people like. Like Charles from Blackwing can, because he is part of the supply chain for a lot of people, and he kind of knows how that works. But if you're just like a little guy and you just want to slap your branding on a pencil and, like, you can go to Musgrave, which is great. But if you don't use Musgrave, you're probably on your own. Like, there's, like, you're not going to be sure where that pencil is coming from. Yeah.
Nice. Well, yeah, there's a lot of good. I feel like we covered a lot of good ground there, especially covering, like, the good stuff, and then the bad stuff is kind of implied through there, you know, Like, I feel like we. In absence of any of those things, you're kind of looking at a bad pencil. But one thing I think, before we get into our specifics of pencils and erasers and everything, is that it would be worth it if somebody is really good just starting here to give them where to go. Like, specifics of, like, especially, like, on the Internet. Like, yeah, you're. You're in pretty good shape if you start here.
Yeah.
You know, like, you're not gonna. You're not gonna be too disappointed. So I think natural, first place to start is with cwpencils.com 100%. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they. Nothing better. There's nothing better out there.
Like, there's. There's a lot of, like. Like, pencils.com was a great, great place to buy these. Jetpens has a lot of great ones. But for sheer variety, I think that CW pencils is just, like, best place to go and just, like, look through it all. And I guess the trouble is, is that it might be pretty easy to get overwhelmed at CW pencils just because there's so much. But they have samplers, don't they? Like, they.
They do, yeah. They have a bunch. There's like five or six different, like, kind of sampler packs that they make. I Think. And then. But the other good thing about CW Pencil is that you can buy one.
Yeah, totally.
You can.
You can spend A$75 on one of the thing that you think looks good, and then you can try out 10 different pencils, and you've only put, you know, you've only spent $9 or something and try them out. And I go, I like this one. So I'm gonna stick with that one. Which is. Which is huge. A huge perk.
Their shipping is reasonable.
Their shipping is reasonable. And most things are, like, under $2. Like, most pencils. And that's.
And they are. Yeah, yeah. Beautifully wrapped, beautiful. There's a lot of love and care that goes into all those.
So as you can tell, we're. We're pretty. Pretty biased to CW Pencils, but only because they've earned it. Like, earned our respect. They're just so great. So, yeah.
So CW pencils. Pencils.com and JetPens.
JetPens are good. There's other stuff. Like, there's Pencils jp But they have this really screwy way to, like, to pay.
Yeah. You have to, like.
Yeah.
So you have to, like, mail it. You put, like, cash into an envelope, you mail it to yourself, and it'll get back to you. You deposit it in the bank, you write a check, but you write it out to this, like, guy in Washington State.
Exactly.
He gets it, and he sends the money back to you. And then you get on PayPal and you.
It's.
Yeah, but it is wacky, and you feel like you're being.
If depends on pay with dogecoin. Yeah.
Yeah. You feel like you're being scammed, but you're not. So.
Yeah, if you go to CW Pencils, and if you go underneath pencils, there's a category called Pencil sets, and they have something like six different, like, kind of curated pencil sets. They have one for, like, crossword puzzles. They have one called Deep Cuts, which is kind of a great name, which I think is just. Oh, yeah. Like, kind of more obscure. Like greats. They have a jumbo sampler pack. They have lefty sampler packs, which only means that the imprint is on the other side. Sketchbook sampler packs. Noting and note taking Sampler packs. Yeah. And everything's under 20 bucks. Like, it's really good. And Sampler pack. Fun Fact is, how I sort of got into pencils, I bought one from PencilThings back in the day. I was like, these are really great. So that was my first taste of it. Yeah.
Yeah. And if you're walking around, you know, a random city. Art shops are a good place to pick up sort of open stock, different grades.
Yeah, yeah. And honestly. And if you are in a place that doesn't have like, like lots of good, like little gift shops and art supply stores, like if you have a Staples or an Office Depot or a Target, you can probably find, I usually think, like Mars Lumograph seem to be at this point pretty ubiquitous. Like, they're all over the place and they are just very good quality pencils.
And I would add Generals Kimberly to that.
Yeah, yeah.
As well. Like, you can find those at. They have those at like hobby lobby kind of places.
Yeah, Michael's.
Cool.
Yeah.
Well, since we're already talking about like specific pencils, why don't we just jump into our lists and just talk through these are choices for kind of that first step that we've been talking about and just tell us what you picked and why you picked it. And Andy, why don't you just keep going, Start us out.
I guess that my, my big picks for beginner. When I say like pencil beginners, I mean like people who are just starting to like, want to go deep into pencils. Honestly, you probably have already. But if you haven't, check out some black wings. Like, they are sort of like the quintessential like new, new quality pencil. Like boutique pencil, I should say. Like, they're getting a lot bigger than they used to be. You can find them in like a lot of like museum gift shops and like little hipster boutiques and places like that. Yeah, they're not that expensive. I mean, they're not cheap, but they're not that expensive. Especially if you can buy them in singles. They're generally about like 2 bucks per pencil or $25 for a dozen. And they're just, they're just going to blow you away with the way that they look and the quality that they are and how well they write. I think you probably already know this, but the, the dark black one is the softest and then the silvery one is the middle and. Or no, sorry, the white one is the middle quality hardness. And then the silvery one is like the, the hardest.
So yeah, they're just still on the softer side.
Yeah, they're sort of the quintessential boutique pencil that you should check out. And they're getting into being a lot more places too. So that one. And I kind of mentioned this before, but yeah, if you're at a, like a big box office supply store, they probably have Mars Lumographs there. Just pick Some of those up.
Yes.
Staples has them in the drafting section.
Yeah, yeah.
The regular pencils.
And really, like. Yeah, that's. That's kind of the best kind of, like, easy entry, good quality pencils around here.
So.
And one thing we forgot to mention with. And we should put a link in the show notes to this episode. When we're talking about places to find pencils, you should go to Cardographite.
Oh, yeah.
Which was. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's created by members. Members of our group to kind of crowdsource and gather up an amazing list of local shops that you can go to around the world. Really. So if you. And then if you end up finding a place, you can add it to Cartographite. Yeah, but check there as well.
Yeah, I'll have that link in show notes.
Cool.
Hey, Johnny, how about you? What are the pencils that make your list?
So I would start with General Cedar Point, because you could find them at. Who has the Michaels Hobby Lobby, Places like that. And they're also. They're super cheap on Amazon for some reason. They only charge like five bucks because they're American made. They have a really nice core, a really nice eraser. They're not expensive. It's a good gateway into natural pencils because I feel like people from our generation didn't use natural pencils when we were kids. They were all yellow or, you know, glitter or made of recycled tires or something. And, you know, a natural pencil is a nice pleasure. So I would start with that pencil and I would go to, you know, your big box store and find some Chinese unsharpened Ticonderogas to remind you that cheap pencils can also be very good pencils. Because the Cedar Chinese Ticonderogas are super awesome, especially the recent ones. And, you know, they're cheap right now. You probably get them for like two or three bucks. Musgrave Bugle. Because they're so naked. They're really cool. And they're also cheap. But you can only get them at CW that I'm aware of. And the Wopex, we have to shout out for the Wopex, because should we.
Do you want to explain to the people what the. What a Wolfex is?
So a Wopex is a wooden pencil extrusion. Sort of like those crappy pencils we had in the 80s, except that they're not crappy and are, in fact, awesome. They're made by Staedtler and they're made of.
They're really heavy.
Yeah, they're wood Flour. And then the finish is also extruded. So the finish is usually either rubbery or like plasticky. The green ones are plasticky. They have a really good eraser. They hold a point forever. I mean they're not easy to sharpen and they're not easy to love.
But Johnny does.
Yeah, it could be. It could be an eye opener. It could be that you're like this is the worst piece of crap I've ever used. And everything else looks great to you now.
But
for my last pick, I would say go to an art shop and try different grades of pencils. Because you'd be surprised that sometimes like for instance, Faber Castell 9000 in 4b is the sweet spot. And it might not occur to folks to try a 4B pencil for writing.
That's a good point too. Sorry, go into.
I think we're about to make the same point. I was just going to talk about the like German or like the European grades versus the American or Japanese grades. Yeah. As if they're. They're not all. They're not all equal. I mean where you're going to go and you're going to try something like you might try Faber Castell and you find that sweet spot Johnny was talking about. Like the 4B is really nice. But then you'll notice that if you picked up some like Tombow Monos and did the same thing that a 2B might be feel exactly the same as a 4B in European. So that's just how fun facts to be. Is that the great.
The grading scale is not regulated by anybody.
So yeah, we need to start that governing body.
There is no number two pencil.
Or we can be like the whistleblowers and like get them in trouble. Yeah, they have to send it through us and have us like actually match them up. Like. No, this is actually a 2B. So this is. You need to re. Manufacture that entire.
We're like the MPAA but for pencils.
Exactly. Yeah. So you'll notice that German European pencils tend to be on the harder side whereas Japanese pencils tend to the softer. So just worth. Worth remembering.
Yeah.
Or I think for most people when we. When we say. I feel like most of the time when we say stuff about to be being a like a nice spot that a lot of people like. 2B pencils. We're talking about for most people you're talking about Japanese 2B.
Yeah, yeah. Japanese pencils are like Tombow and Mitsubishi are just like some of the best and most consistent like quality pencils you can get like they're completely just gorgeous. The foil stamping on them are just like, it's impeccable. Like they usually have really, really great colors and just like a, like a big old pressing of of the foil stamps. So they're just gorgeous. And the lacquer is really thick and plush and just lustrous. Yeah, Japanese pencils, man.
Yeah, Japanese pencils, man. There's another good episode title.
Tim, what is. What are your picks for beginner pencils?
Yeah, so I'll start with. I wanted to choose some that were like on the lower end as far as price and then some that are just a little bit higher. It's all relative with pencils because they're not. There's not that much of a difference really. But the cheap option I wanted to recommend was the forest choice for a lot of the same reasons that Johnny said. Cedar point, they're harder to get. You have to get them through pencils.com or CW pencils. But they're cheap. They're like $3 a dozen. And they are a natural pencil. They're made with certified, like safe or what's the term?
Like responsible for stewardship pencil.
Certified. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Responsibly, Forest, wood, Forested, harvested woods. Sorry. And it's also just kind of a cool, funky looking pencil that you can get into. And I mean it's, it's a natural pencil, but it's got like a Christmas eraser and feral like green, green ferrule, red eraser.
Yeah.
And it just has like a feel that. I might just think this because of Johnny's post about the forest choice and Hemingway. But I just like, when I look at this, I'm like, it seems from another time kind of, you know, like this was. This pencil could have been manufactured in 1910 or something and it would have looked just the same, would have felt the same, would have been the exact same pencil, which is cool. So I'm a big fan of these and you can buy a gross of mine. For the last few years, I bought a gross of these giving them to students whenever they need pencils at school. And they always love them. They always come back and ask for more. And you know, they just, they sharpen really smoothly. They're made of cedar, so they're really high quality for that tiny price that you're getting. And it's a true hb. So it stays. Holds a point for quite a while, sharpens really nicely. I've never had a forest choice that's had a fractured core yet. I'm sure they're out there, but I've never had one, so. Yeah, so that's, that's where I'd start with the force choice. And then is like kind of move up. Generals test scoring 580 is a really, it's just a really cool pencil because it looks really unassuming. It's black, it's got a red eraser, silver ferrule. Just simple. It just says Generals test scoring 580. Real simple looking pencil. But you'll notice just to get something that's a little different, if you get those, it has a softer core that probably is more like a B, maybe 2B, but probably more like a B. But you'll notice that the core is actually just a little bit thicker than most standard pencils.
It's for filling in those standardized test bubbles.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's. So it leaves a really nice dark line, but it also has the bigger core, which when you have a bigger, or at least based on my findings, is the bigger the core, the smoother something feels because you're not, I don't know if it's like a vibrations thing in your hand, but the larger the core in the center, like if you get these jumbos, like the Faber Castell jumbo pencils that have these big fat cores in the middle, it's like you don't even feel it. Even the harder pencils, you don't even feel it. So I'm a big fan of that. And that one's, I don't know, was it $12 a dozen? So it's a little, little up there and then in the same price range. My, my favorite pencil ever, which is the Palomino hp, which is available in a couple colors. And it's, it's not, not part of the Blackwing line.
So here's the thing about, about Blackwing is they, they really, they really, they started off as sort of like this, this other like, brand of pencils called the Palomino. And they're like big title. Title. I'm trying to think of what to say. Like the big marquee, like head pencil was the Palomino pencil. Everything else was the Palomino, you know, something else. And Blackwing sort of like took over as the star of that show. But the Palomino is still, is still sort of like the, the underappreciated, just like old favorite of Palomino pencils.
Yeah, yeah.
It's like, it is just like a perfect hb holds a nice point, but it's soft. It's a Beautiful pencil with a really nice smooth finish and a good eraser on it. If this is the first episode you've listened to because somebody pointed it to you, if you're getting into pencils, if you go back to episode one and start listening, you'll hear me talk about it every episode or two.
Every single time.
Yeah. Because it comes up quite a bit. Yeah, it's kind of a thing with me. Oh, and also, it's worth mentioning that forest choice is also made by the Palomino Blackwing. Slash. Forest choice, slash, you know, whatever, conglomerate of boutique pencils. So they come from the same company.
I can't remember if I told you guys about the metaphor that I was working on for the pen show about the difference between collecting or getting into pencils versus getting into fountain pens is like the difference between coffee tasting and wine tasting. Have we talked about this?
No, no, keep going.
So the difference between a crappy bottle of wine and a really, really amazing bottle of wine is hundreds of dollars. Kind of like fountain pens, right? Because, like, you know, you could buy a pilot varsity fountain pen for $4. That's disposable. Or you could buy a really nice handmade Japanese fountain pen made with, like, eggshells and lacquer for sixteen hundred dollars, but with pencils. Like, the difference in price between a really good, like, pencil, like the Palomino Blackwing is $2, and a really cheap one, which is just like a quarter.
So. Yeah, like the Swiss wood or something, you're like. You get to the point where, like, what? Yeah, $5 for what? Oh, well, that's still not bad. That's all right.
Yeah. So it's kind of like how, you know, coffee tasting is a. Like, the difference between, like, Folgers and a pound of really, really good coffee is maybe like 20 bucks. So it's much. It's much more reasonable than the difference between, like, pens and wine.
I like that. Yeah, that's good.
Yeah.
Good comparison. And the last. Last thing on my list and I. For some reason in my head, I always just bundle these together. They just seem so similar to me is the Tombow Mono and Mitsubishi Hyuni pencils. They're just in the same world to me. Like, they're. They're pretty similar to each other. They're technically, I guess, drawing pencils.
Yeah, they're almost exactly the same quality. Like, yeah, they look significantly different, but they.
Yeah.
And you'll see, like, isn't there. Is there. There's Mitsubishi Uni, right? Pencils.
Yeah.
And then high Uni and then there's mono and mono 100, which are both like the lower and higher end version. But the cores are exactly the same. They're just like, you know, like the mono 100 and high uni are just, like, in their formal wear, and the other ones are just, you know, street clothes. Yeah, whatever. They feel just about. Just about the same. But that's if you want to get into the grades. I can't imagine a better place to be than trying out through Tombow or Mitsubishi and both of those brands. I think it. I'd probably lean towards tombows that anything Tombow makes is. Is pretty awesome.
Yeah.
So those black and white, highly engineered.
They're just so gorgeous.
Yeah. Like tuxedo pencils.
Yeah.
Cool. Well, let's. Now let's get into erasers. So just picking a couple erasers, which I have to admit, for me, like, this section, I've got one that I feel strongly about, and then after that, I just had to pick, like, my second favorite. But I don't use separate erasers very much. Yeah, I don't know about you guys, but Andy, let's go back to you. So what are your picks?
I kind of. I don't want to steal Johnny's thunder here. I picked any white polymer eraser as a good pick for that. Because I think that a lot of people remember erasers as sort of like a big pink rubber eraser that leaves a lot of. Once it gets old, it gets smeary, and then also it leaves a lot of residue, like dust behind. But the amazing thing about the polymer erasers are they are made out of, like, a plastic. They hardly leave behind any residue. And unlike rubber erasers, they never go hard. I think that's. That's something I got at the pen show a lot is people would be like, oh, I have, you know, these old pencils that I think are really cool. But the eraser, you can't use them. And I always say, well, what you could do is, you know, just if you have like a Dremel or some sandpaper, just like sand off that very top layer of eraser because it's hard, because it has oxidized. And if you get rid of that thing, it should be good as new. So generally they're like, oh, wow, that's cool. But if you go to an art supply store or right there with the Mars Lumograph, there are, like, white polymer erasers. They'll be amazing. Like, you won't know that this is the way an eraser could be.
That Said there are some Pentel makes really good ones too. Yeah, Pentel has the ones you can buy at Target and stuff. Those are, those are fantastic.
Yeah, they'll usually say like polymer or sometimes they'll say like foam or high polymer. High polymer, yeah. They're really good. Then on the other side, on the more the rubber side, there's a couple. There's the Black Pearl which is made by the same company that makes the Pink Pearl. Kind of a classic, classic eraser. The Black Pearl is kind of like pebble shaped and just feels really good in your hand and also has like a nice like narrow edge for fine erasing. That's a really good one. They should sell that at like Target or any big up big box store. Then my last pick I guess would be something that's a little bit more expensive, a little bit harder to find. They sell it at Pen Addict or Pen CW Pencils. It is called the Magic Eraser. It's made by Koh I Noor, which is a Czech brand. It's just a really beautiful eraser. It's alternating layers. It's almost like tie dye of different colors of eraser. There's like white and yellow and green and blue, pink and red, orange. It's just really great looking and it works really well too. But that's mostly just something that's just beautiful to look at. Yeah. Johnny, what are your, what are your eraser picks?
I like Tim. I don't use them a lot, but I have a lot of erasers. So I really like the white plastic erasers. And there's one that Faber Castell makes. I forgot the model number but the sleeve on it is like a silver gray and you can find them at like AC Moore and stores like that. That is a little better than the Mars one. It's like spritz perfect. It can be erased. It'll erase and not make a mess and not ruin your paper. But that said, I still like the Pink Pearl even though you know, it's more for playing and looks than actually working. But they have, they've redone it. It's gotten softer now. Like it erases stuff and it doesn't tear your paper up anymore, you know, like any racer should do. But yeah, I would go with those two as good places to start. And bonus, I needed eraser from an art shop because they're fun as hell to play with.
They're just great.
It's like the original fidget spinner. They're just like. Just sit there and just like fidget
with It, My mom always had those all over her desks at her drafting table. And I remember going and just talking to her or something when I was a little kid and just picking those up, playing with them, pulling them apart and stretching them and. Yeah, loved it.
Faber Castell makes ones in primary colors now that are just extra adorable.
Yeah, that's good to know.
That's cool.
I'd buy that.
Yeah. How about you, Tim? I also had the Black Pearl like Andy on my list. He turned me on to it. But I, I really like those. Not too much to add beyond what Andy said. But it is shaped kind of. It's a oval shaped and it's not super hot. Tall, deep. I don't know what the word is, but it's not very thick. And so it's a really good one to have in your pocket if you're going to have like an actual physical eraser. It doesn't, it's real low profile and doesn't get in the way of stuff. But my favorite, the one that I actually, if I do use one, the one that I'm going to use most of the time is the Pentel Click eraser which you can get anywhere. But it has a high polymer tube shaped eraser inside. You can click out and extend as you use it up. And you can buy refills to put in it, which is cool because it, you don't have to buy the plastic part over and over again. It's. You can, you just keep refilling. It keeps your hands clean. Also it's like really easy to control what you're erasing and then you don't have the problem of getting an eraser down to like a really small size and just throwing it in the trash because you can't hold on to it anymore. Which I like. So. But I've. I've never, I don't know if I've ever. I've maybe actually emptied one out ever, you know, just because I don't use erasers that often and I do like long form writing with pencils a decent amount. And I'm at the point now where I typically just cross stuff out and keep going just to save time. But those are my picks. Okay, how about, let's just run right into sharpeners. Go back to Andy. So what do you pick?
Well, there's one sharpener that I will not pick because it is the opposite of entry level. It's like finicky and it's like a Ferrari.
It's called a. I think Ferraris work more Often.
So there's a sharpener made by a Germany company called Moebius and Ruppert. And. Well, okay, I'm going to actually back up for a second. This is a quick sharpener history lesson for the noobs. There's this old fabric Eberhard Faber sharpener called a Janus J A N U S. And it was made kind of like mid century, last. Last century. It's really cool. And it. It was known for, like, making this really great, like, tapered point. Like, it. It just sort of like swooped into a point, and by doing that, it exposed more. More graphite, so you would get kind of more bang for your buck. And they stopped making those. You can still kind of find them around, but they're hard to come by. And this company called Mobius and Rupert made something called a Pollux, which has the same sort of tapered point on it. And, you know, they were only available in Germany for a while, and CW pencils were like, oh, hey, we're going to get the Pollux. I don't know when they're having some troubles at the factory, but we'll be selling them. So they finally got them in stock and they were like, holy crap. These things cost $28 for a little handheld pencil sharpener. And being like, you know, being a podcast, a pencil podcaster, I felt that it was my duty to actually get one of these things. So I paid the $28 and I got them. And it is super finicky. It is hard to use. It breaks the wood a lot. It breaks the lead, actually. So when I met Micah from the Erasable Group, she. She was at the San Francisco pen show. She gave me a trick which I think helps a little bit more, which is that you have to sharpen it in stages. Like, you give it a few turns and you take it out. You put it back in and turn it a little bit more and take it out and just do that for a little bit, and it's a little bit more forgiving that way. It just takes forever.
It also depends on the pencil, too. I've discovered there are certain pencils that it works great with that I can always actually, a black wing, for me at least a black wing does pretty well in it. Whereas a harder pencil, like the HB HP pencils, like typical ones, have trouble because just, I guess, just puts too much pressure to try to, like, find, like to sort of finely carve that harder core that ends up just snapping.
Good point. Yeah.
I've also heard that if you buy replacement Blades that, that makes a huge difference because some of them, that first run of them that they made, there's just something a little off about them. And I've had to like tighten down the, the blade a couple times to get it to really work, which is annoying. But it makes sense because of the concave shape.
Yeah. And so, yeah, it's great sharpener when you can use it. Right. But it's super finicky like a luxury car. So if I were to pick like the actual entry, like actual sharpeners, I would say first, any handheld sharpener with a metal base would be the way to go instead of a plastic base because it's really easy to snap those things. So anything made by KUM is really good. I think that the other that Johnny and Tim have some. At least I know Johnny has some KUM suggestions specifically. And then also if you're looking for a really nice like desktop crank sharpener, Classroom Friendly is a really good one. We talk about it a lot here. It's also the same as the Carl Angel 5, which is a different. That's also a dumb name. But it's basically this, this desktop sharpener. It's a crank sharpener, it's a burr sharpener. So it's kind of like in your classrooms. And it has this little like plate in the front that advances out to hold your pencil while you crank it. The Classroom friendly is like 20 bucks. It makes this razor sharp long point, which is, I mean, you could just stab somebody with that thing.
Perfect for throwing into the ceiling if you.
It really is. If you're doing the like Agent Mulder thing from the X Files. And the one drawback to the Classroom Friendly is the teeth are pretty hard and often leave a dent in your pencil, especially if it's like a really nice lacquer. So if you are super, super picky like me and a lot of people, you'll generally wrap the pencil with a post it note before you put it into your sharpener. I have one on my desk at work and I'll do that and sometimes somebody will be like sitting beside me, just watching me, just with amusement. Like carefully wrap my pencil with a post it note and sharpen it.
But it's look up and see. They're like a horrified look on their face.
Yeah, what are you doing?
What? Just what did I just see? Yeah, what did I just witness right there?
So I brought it with me to the little ritual. And it's nice because, like, it's very meditative. You have to like slow down and Think about what you're doing if you're in the middle of something. I took it with me to the pen show and like nobody knew how to use it just because it. It's not like a super obvious way that you use it, but you'll get the hang of it. And it's cheap and it's pretty, just comes in great colors. Get a hot pink one if you want. Yeah. Classroom friendly sharpener. I have that in the show notes. Johnny, what are your, what are your sharpener choices?
So mine are mostly from Kumar, which is the word is escaping me. It's German for Kunstuff owned metal, which is plastic and metal. You can get the regular magnesium wedge like anywhere that sells art supplies for like a buck buck 25. It's a super great sharpener. It's got sort of short point, but they're very reliable. You can get blades, you can cut off little pieces of it and light them on fire because it's just enough magnesium. You can find one that comes with two extra blades screwed to the side. And just that thing would be your sharpener for a couple of years, which is awesome. If you can find the brass one, they don't make it anymore. So that's a bonus score. That's like my favorite pocket sharpener. And then Kum also makes a masterpiece, which makes yes, insanely long points with no bite marks and no little finicky Pollux crap. It just sharpens your pencil.
So if, if the Pollux is a Ferrari, I would say the Koo masterpiece is like a Mercedes. Like it's, it's very reliable. It's also very pretty.
It's also. Yeah, yeah, there you go.
The masterpiece is definitely like the best handheld long point sharpener that you can get. Like buy that over the like the other long point sharpener any day.
Yeah. And so if folks are super new, it has two holes, one of which exposes your graphite and you can sharpen the stopper and it's like, woo, go nuts. And into graphite. And the next one sharpens the graphite as opposed to just sharpening the wood. Is that intelligible?
Yeah. Like the first one.
It's getting late.
Yeah. Yeah. So the way that a Pollux would be better is if it followed the same kind of model where you expose the graphite and then use the like a Pollock side that then like makes a concave point on the actual graphite. Ooh, maybe that would work a little better. Maybe not though, because I know the Pollux does make a concave point. In the wood too. I'm just trying to think of a way that would be a little more reliable.
Yeah, yeah.
And the masterpiece comes with spare blades and allegedly just takes regular comb blades, which you can get anywhere. Yeah. So if you take care of it, it would last forever because Kuhn blades are going to stick around. You never know. Mobius and Rupert might be like, the Pollux is a money loser and stop making the blades and you just have a paperweight that never really worked anyway. And the masterpiece comes with a case which is pretty tight. And for my third and final, the M and R bullet keychain, which is a little brass sharpener with a hole so you can carry it on your keys.
I think at this point, all three of us carries that around, right?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
New blade on mine this morning, but actually the, the lip that holds the non business end side of the blade because I dropped it so much was dented over the blade so I had to like pry it back out.
That's solid brass. That's amazing.
Yeah, I drop it a lot. I had to replace it because the blade actually chipped because, I don't know, I dropped it. But it had been on there for a long time and it was still sharp and I use it a lot. So that's, that's a, that's a good endorsement, I think. Yeah, yeah. If you have, if you have those three sharpeners, you're like ready for anything except fat pencils, in which case get a comb wedge with the white hole
also or the Castell 9002 hole that I have on my list. So that'll, that'll work with the, the fat pencils, which I'm a big fan of.
Yeah.
Did you get through all of yours? Sorry.
Yeah, yeah.
I didn't mean to butt in, but yeah. Yeah. So the first one I had on my list is the Castell 9002 hole sharpener, which is a handheld sharpener that you can get from CW pencils. I have the, the link in the show notes, but it's a hole for a large pencil, hole for a regular size pencil. And then it also has a reservoir that catches the shavings, which is nice if you're out and you want to sharpen. It does put. It doesn't put a real short point. It actually puts kind of a nice medium point on your pencil, which I like. And it also swivels so you kind of. It closes the hole so nothing leaks out of it into your pocket or anything. But then it. The actual sharpener part swivels out like 180 degrees where you can use it and then close it up, which is a cool little feature. The only downside of this one is that you can switch the blades out that I know of. So it's just kind of a disposable thing, which sort of sucks. But. But they last a long time, so it takes a while to really wear it out. And I guess I should point out that at this point I agree with all of the other stuff that you two said, like this, this also. Those are all great, especially the bullet. The. The bullet keychain and the classroom friendly. I mean all those. You just. I mean, you can't go wrong with any of these. But. And then the only other one that I would add is kind of an alternative to the classroom friendly is the DAHL 133, which is also a crank sharpener, but it doesn't have the teeth on it that it's going to mark up your pencil. It doesn't make as sharp as a sharp of a point by any means as the classroom friendly, but it makes again like a nice medium point. And it can also fit jumbo pencils.
Yeah, it makes a killer point on those.
Yeah, it does, it does. So it's kind of the best of both worlds there.
Should we real quick mention maybe like the advantage of a long point versus a sharp point or short point?
Sure, yeah. I mean, I think it's. It's definitely a personal preference kind of thing, like for how often you're okay with. Yeah, I mean how often you're okay with sharpening. And I think a lot of.
Yeah, a lot of artists like a shorter point because they can choke up at the pencil a little bit more and have more control. But because it's shorter and less graphite is exposed, you have to sharpen it more. Whereas the long point is there's more graphite there, so you don't have to sharpen it quite as much.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I mean long point, I mean, obviously is going to last a lot longer because you've got more exposed point. You can also. I mean, these, these really crazy ones like the masterpiece and things. One of the main benefits of those and the classroom friendly is that if you write really small, which like, I know, Andy, you have pretty small handwriting.
Yeah, pretty small.
So I mean, like, if you have really small handwriting, then it's nice to have that super long point because you're going to get. Be able to have the smallest print for the longest amount of time. Whereas I kind of like a Medium point most of the time because I write pretty big. I'm still a wide ruled paper kind of guy. I mean, I, I write pretty big and I like blank pages in my notebooks because I, yeah, just have a pretty big handwriting. So I kind of like to have the, the medium point that I can get a chunkier line along the way sometimes. So. So that I like the doll for that, for that feature. But like I said, it also doesn't put the bite marks and it's, it's half the price as well. Usually you can get it through the link in the show notes for about 12 bucks, which is an awesome deal, especially if you have Prime. Those are my picks. I think we got a pretty killer list there of some good places to start. Those of you who are listening to the podcast, like people who've been listening with us for 81 episodes, people on our Facebook group, anybody who's hearing this. If you know somebody who you feel like should hear this, you know who. Somebody who, who maybe has shown like some interest in getting into finding nice pencils and all that. We hope that we put something together that would be a good place for them to start. We know it's a commitment for them to sit down, listen to an hour and a half people talking about pencils. But I think we got a lot of good stuff here. I hope this is a useful thing and you can use it in your pencil evangelicism. Yes. But if anybody also listening to this has any questions about this. This topic and want some help finding something or whatever, you can always reach out to us on Twitter. I am TimWassom. You can find me on Twitter at Timothy or sorry, timwassom. I'm also on Instagram. Timothywassom. Andy, where can people find you on the Internet?
I am Wealthley A W E L F as in Faber on Twitter. Same thing on Instagram. So yeah, you can kind of reach out there. And then also my. My pencil blog is woodclinched and feel free to send me a. Send me a email through the contact form there. How about you, Johnny?
I am on Twitter at Pensolution and you can also find me@pencilrevolution.com.
hey, the erasable podcast is at. Erasable us is our website where you can go. You can find the list of all the episodes in the show Notes. You can also find our top five lists and any. We have some merch up there that kind of comes and goes. Magazine, magazines, zines. That's the word. Andy's zine. Plumbago that he puts together, which is super cool. And we also have stickers, pins, sometimes notebooks, sometimes. Just keep an eye out on there. We're on Facebook. We have a amazing Facebook group that we mentioned earlier that we recently hit 2,000 members, which is just totally insane. So it was one of the best places on the Internet. It is the safest space for pencil people to just talk about all the things that you're interested in and hear about the crazy things that people are finding in real life and on the Internet and everything. So join us there@facebook.com groups erasable. We also have a Facebook page that you can go and like, which did that also just reached 1000, is that correct?
Yeah.
Yeah. Is that what we're talking about? Yep. Yeah. Facebook.com erasablepodcast you can go there and like us and you'll get updates when there are new episodes or when we have any sort of announcements or products that we're wanting to let you know about. We are also on Twitter and Instagram raceablepodcast on both of them. The show notes from tonight's episode from today's episode will be at Erasable Us and we really appreciate you taking the time to listen to us. We'll talk to you next time. The intro music for the Erasable podcast is graciously provided by this Mountain, a collaborative folk rock band from Johnson City, Tennessee. You can check out their music at www.thismountainband.com. gaze captures me with wonder.
I can taste the days of a long past summer if I could just count the times this has happened before. Oh, I said.