This transcript was generated from an audio file by AI, and may contain inaccuracies.
Transcript
Shut up, butthead.
We'll talk about pens.
Hello and welcome to episode 67 of the erasable podcast. I am Gamber comma John, and I am joined for this first episode of 2017 by Wellfleet Andrew Wasum. Timothy is considerably ill tonight, and we wish him a speedy recovery and the best hot toddies Tennessee has to offer. Tonight, we are lucky enough to have Courtney Cochran, marketing and design director at Hester and Cook, on the show. If you've enjoyed a thin bridge pencil, an interestingly named jumbo hex pencil, or a chalky white grease pencil with a gold cap on top. And you've got Courtney to thank. How are you folks this evening?
Good comma Johnny.
Doing well.
That would be Johnny comma good.
I don't understand why we're doing this.
I don't either. I wrote the intro really early this morning.
Oh, good.
One of the children woke me up.
Yeah. So cool. Yeah, I think we've definitely talked about Hester and Coat products a lot on the show before. So. I'm in the middle of our After Dark episode about the Gilmore Girls because she had a lot of very insightful comments, but she didn't have her Skype capabilities. So
we've never gotten to talk about aesthetic pencil design with someone actually does it.
Yeah, it's awesome. And also, yeah, I'm definitely interested in hearing just about, like, Hester and Cook in general, because, like, I feel like all I know about Hester and Cook is their pencils.
Okay.
So, yeah, once we get through some of the tools of the trade and stuff, let's talk about that.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Should we jump right in?
Sure. Awesome.
Courtney, do you want to go first for tools of the trade?
Sure. So right now I am digging. I guess these are the things I've been listening to outside of pencil podcasts. Really been digging on the Tim Ferriss show, listening to 99% Invisible and also another round. So I'm real, real heavy into the podcast right now.
What's another round?
It is. It's these two girls who I think might be BuzzFeed writers. I think is their 9 to 5, but they just interview a variety of people and really they kind of keep you abreast of, like, what's going on nationally, whether that's politically, pop culture, any of those good things. They get on a lot of, like, heavy hitters, really great interview subjects. So, yeah, seeing in a Hester and Cook marble journal and using a Mitsubishi 9800 matured micro graphite lead pencil.
Mature micro graphite?
Yeah.
Made by A laboratory
for the packaging.
But the pencil. I'm actually enjoying itself, too. Cool.
Well, I am.
What have I been digging lately? Johnny put down Blues Clues and Fraggle Rock for me, so I definitely got him in Fraggle Rock. This was Tim. He was on. He wasn't himself. He was. He didn't know what he was doing. No, I. There's a show that a season just ended on. Crap. I don't know what channel it was on, but it's called Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency.
And the show itself is pretty bad, I thought. But it got me thinking about. It's actually two books written by Douglas Adams, who's a just a pretty fantastic British science fiction writer, like, humor writer. He wrote the Hitchhiker's Guard the Galaxy trilogy in five parts. But he also had a couple other books that I really like called Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency. So I recently reread those two books. They go pretty quick. And I probably read both of those books, like, four or five times. I just love that series. There's the original one, which is named Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency, and the sequel is the Long Dark Tea Time of the Soul, which is pretty great. So, yeah, recently rereading those. I'll put a link in show notes. If you like British, like, I wouldn't say magical humor, but like, British combined with like. Like kind of a fantasy element. He's pretty great. The other thing is, I wish here, because he would get into this, but there's a podcast called Roderick on the Line. You've heard us talk about this before, right? Right, Johnny, I've heard you talk about
it, but I haven't listened to podcasts.
So it's a San Francisco guy named Merlin Mann who used to be like a. Like a productivity blogger.
And he just was an Internet personality that kind of morphed into like a. Like a humor guy for tech people, basically. So he has this podcast with John Roderick, who is a. The lead singer from the Long Winters and is also sort of an Internet personality, like a talker. And they have this podcast where they just have conversations and sometimes it's funny and sometimes it's not. Most of the time it's funny. And so he's from Seattle. John Ronbrook is. So this week has been San Francisco Sketch Fest, and they did a live fest recording. So I went to it. It was pretty great. While Topher in the chat room says that John Roderick has hugged him twice. What did you go here? I bet John Walter gives good hugs. But if they're like their hugs, must be a hugger. So, yeah, I got to see that live last night. Or no, two nights ago. It was. It started at 10:30, which in the. In the evening, which I didn't know about when I bought tickets. It was a little late for me,
but, yeah, it was pretty good. So I am writing today with a. A goddamn Sharpie liquid pencil that I modded to actually write by melting around the barrel of a wooden pencil.
Watch your mouth.
That is what just found its way
into the show notes.
I'm actually writing a pencil. It's actually. It's been a while since I've used one and I forgot, like, how. And I'm writing in my field notes. Black ice book. So, Johnny, how about you?
I hope I'm not alone in having watched the last episode of Sherlock 4 last night on PBS.
Oh, I have not yet. I can't say anything. I'm up to the second one. The second of the season? Yeah, the second of the season. Oh, my God. That was like the best one, that. Best episode they ever did. That was so good.
It was so good.
Yeah. Okay.
Do you want to Sherlock Courtney?
I haven't.
Oh, my God.
Show up to show.
So awesome.
It's really good.
That's what everyone is saying.
There are no pencils in the show, but it's still a good show.
Everybody just texts.
Yeah. And the first one, they had moleskins and pins, like pin tail. You know, Sherlock uses black wings. Boo.
Oh, yeah.
So our local station had that last night. And then Victoria, the new PBS series about Queen Victoria with Rufus Sewell, which is pretty awesome. And in the same line, what's her name?
From Doctor who? What's her name? Jenna Coleman. From Doctor who.
I don't know who that is.
She plays Victoria.
She looks like she's like, 12.
Yeah, she looks very young. Yeah. She was the assistant to the last Doctor.
I don't know what Doctor who actually is. I really don't like. I know the guy from the Crown was on there, and that's why he's famous. He just looks funny to me.
So she was on when Matt Smith was on.
Okay. That's the guy from the Crown.
Yeah. Each went off and kind of did their own, like. Well, and also like the current doc. It doesn't matter. We shouldn't talk about this. This isn't a Doctor who.
No. I feel like this is the show that I need to watch, but I think it's right.
You can start with, like, the new series, but there's like, you know, there's like eight seasons already and you definitely need to start like pretty early on.
Wow. Okay.
I'll send you a primer. We can. We don't have to talk about doctor who.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I'm late to watching the Crown because I keep falling asleep. Not because it's not well done, but because I'm tired all the time. So I'm not finished yet. But any you of Tim have watched it and said it was super good. So I'm plowing through and I finally read Writing down the Bones. Apparently everyone in the world's read that
book but me, so I haven't read it.
Okay.
Yeah, me neither.
Hey, the only other two people. It's very interesting. So I ordered her sequel books, which I haven't read yet because I keep falling asleep. And I'm writing with the same pencil you're writing with a bridge pencil. And I write notepads in the pines, which oddly matches very, very well.
I'm so jealous.
Sorry. So one of the few benefits of living in Baltimore City. So they get my write notepads first, but they shipped them this time in box, which is good because last time I think a lot of folks had some dings on their packs when they were in an envelope. If you haven't gotten yours yet, at least you get to look forward to a cool box.
So.
Yeah.
Yeah. It looks beautiful.
So pretty. So pretty. So we'll talk about that more probably in fresh points. So shall we jump into fresh points?
We should. That was a beautiful transition.
I can't think of another way to say that. Nice segue unstale non blunt objects. I don't know.
All right, so should I start on freshpoint?
Yes, please.
All right, so I felt like I should have had more to bring to this, but a couple of things that I had fresh on my mind having just come back from our first wholesale market for the season is Hester and Cook just debuted some new artists erasers, which I've really been enjoying. So we had done some similar to it before and had some manufacturing obstacles and those have since been resolved and so we've re debuted them with a new design.
Excellent.
Yeah, so that's been good. And then we also just did something that like a huge trend on all kinds of paper home interiors, apparel. All kinds of different arenas are having this tropical theme come up. So we have a notepad that's got all these tropical leaves on the border and I'm really enjoying it so far. Those are my fresh points.
Real quick. Going back to the artist erasers, what makes an artist eraser?
So for me, it is an artist eraser because it's what I was forced to purchase in my high school art classes. And so I've always. I've always noticed them ever since then we had to have a kneaded eraser and then these, like, rectangular gum erasers. So, yeah, that. That's kind of, for me, where the genesis of it is. And I've always noticed them anytime I'm using, you know, touring artist studios. There's a lot of very artsy community here in Nashville, and they're all very open to having people come in. They'll all host events and things like that. So I noticed some of those tools that I've seen across my career and across my early days of art classes. That's what makes them an artist eraser to me, having used them in art classes and then seeing them, you know, also in use for working artists as well.
I'm looking on the website. You don't have them up on the website yet, do you?
Not yet.
Is that in the picture under stationery?
Yeah.
With the cursive writing, or it would be.
Yes, it is.
What do they look like, the artist erasers?
So it's a rectangular prism. It's probably about 3/4 of an inch high by maybe 2 inches long and an inch deep. And the top of that is stamped with our Hester and Cook logo, but it's just a rubber gummy racer. So it's like a. Almost a caramel brown color, and it's somewhat opaque. It varies depending on the mix of the rubber that they're doing for that day. Sometimes they're very opaque and almost milky looking, and other times it's a little more of a translucent caramel color.
That's cool.
Tasty. Yeah.
Yeah. I kind of want to eat one now.
As good as they look,
I'll be honest. I've taken a bite of an eraser before.
Okay, You join Charlotte. She and a kindergarten nurse ate all erasers. Like, consumed them. Like. What do you mean? You chew them up? She's like, I ate them. Like, you ate them? You swallowed them? Yeah, she swallowed them. They will kill you. Yeah. In fact, they'll make you grow a
lot
and learn sass.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is that where it comes from?
Yeah, I think so.
Because I went to Catholic school and I never ate erasers and I never learned sass. We didn't have erasers. Sad face.
Were you allowed to make mistakes?
We paid for our mistakes. I don't know if it's a thing.
They erased it with their blood and tears.
Have you seen that episode of the Simpsons where Bart goes to Catholic school? No. They're like, he messes around in math, so they make him hold the textbooks up on his arms. That's about it. That's about it. Accurate.
I feel like I shouldn't be laughing,
so I'm a little embarrassed. I do not actually have any fresh points.
What? Really? I know.
I feel like I should, but I've basically. So I guess this is a fresh point in and of itself. I am between jobs, actually, tomorrow I'm starting at Adobe. Going to work there.
Really? Awesome.
Don't think the irony of how Photoshop has killed analog writing tools. Like, I'm gonna go work for them. But that would involve like, like writing or creation or. What am I trying to think? I basically just sat there and watched TV and consumed the Internet for like a week and I went out and did stuff, but I have no, like, interesting stationary things of note to talk about because, yeah, I just basically sat on my couch and watch Netflix.
But you're gaining a bunch of your life back with your shorter commute, right?
I am. I will have a.
That's a fair point. That's awesome.
Okay. Yeah, I'll have a. We'll see. I'll see for sure tomorrow. But I should be getting about two hours of my day back.
Two hours every day?
Yeah. During rush hour to Facebook, it would be about an hour and a half commute, you know, so it should be about half an hour to 45 minutes. Ish.
That's awesome.
Yeah. But I'll have more as I, like, enter society again and like, yeah, do stuff. So, Johnny, how about your fresh points? This first one is. I'm glad you're going to talk about it.
So I finally published something new on my unknown blog today because I never published Updated about point retention and durability, which was a post I wrote a month ago and I forgot to publish about my experiences during National Novel Writing Month regarding what we usually consider to be point retention, which is usually how sharp a pencil stays. And I discovered that, well, everybody probably knows it. Maybe I just. I don't know. I'm stupid. And it took me a long time to figure it out that point retention is really not just how sharp it is, but how long you can write with it. So there were a lot of times where softer pencils were lasting a lot longer for me than harder pencils. So that was the point of my little blog post. But I think we should change point retention to point durability.
Just. Yeah, that makes sense.
And we should make T shirts that say point durability, which is also going to be my new band Point durability. Yeah. I have to do this before I turn 40 or otherwise. It's really weird.
It should be in the style of one of those, like, Japanese pencils that say, like, made by elaborate process.
Yes. Yes. We have to call the pencil store and get some pencils made that say something like, excellent point durability.
Excellent. Fantastic point durability. If only we knew somebody with a pencil store.
Yeah. Supreme point durability.
Or somebody who had, like, a whole brand of pencils. Yeah.
Oh, my God.
I feel like we can make this happen.
This is gonna be big
between us. Or cw. Someone can get that done. I know.
I think so. Make that happen.
Yeah, but. So I figured out that softer black wings actually last longer than harder black wings. So I don't know if somebody accused me of being a blackwing ad, which I just reference. Those are the pencils I had that I was using. But, yeah, I think that's. That's why I like the MMX so much because it actually writes forever before you have to sharpen it. Even though it's, you know, black butter.
Yeah. There should be some sort of a. Oh. Some sort of a, like, ratio, like, depending on how big your handwriting is. The bigger your handwriting. Handwriting is the blunter the. Like the pencil can be before you lose legibility.
Yeah. So, okay.
I was gonna say, I bet that we can, like, measure somebody's handwriting and tell them, like, what pencil would work best for them for how long they
want to write and what paper. This is a service we could provide.
I know. Free scratch.
Yeah, that would be worth it for the fun. What do you do all day? I tried six different pencils on this one book because someone wanted to know how it would work.
We match people up with. Doesn't everybody match people up with their ideal pencil and notebook?
What did you get out of that? I changed somebody's life.
That's the most niche matchmaking service I've ever heard of, and I love it.
You could get a really good thank you in somebody's novel.
Yeah, we should just build, like, a bot or something like that. Like a. Like a website where we can do this. I bet we can get people on board with that.
Yeah. Oh, my God. I'm gonna do this tomorrow for, like,
everybody I know
all night, so. Also, I noticed there's not a big moleskin group On Facebook. So I started one called Moleskinners, which
is what I'm really surprised about that.
I know. I'm like, there's gotta be one. There was one for Moleskinery, which is the greatest stationary blog that's ever existed, but it's closed. And I don't think they're accepting new members.
Yeah.
So all the other ones are like, you know, 10 people, mole skinners.
You know, Baltimore, 10 people, skinheads. Yeah.
Oh, my God. Did not join that one.
Yeah.
So also on the Moleskin thing, if you're a Harry Potter fan, there are Harry Potter Moleskins. Two of them. They're really cool. Yeah. There's one that's the Marauders map and it's canvas. And there's an Expecto Patronum one that's burgundy, the normal. Whatever material that is. They're awesome. They come with stickers, which is cool.
There's also hello Kitty. There's a new hello Kitty Moleskine.
I get that for Charlotte, but. So Moleskin is out of them. But if you have a Barnes and Noble near you, especially if you have one of those, like, college bookstore Barnes and Nobles, where nobody actually goes, they have them on stock, like in person, which is awesome.
Do you guys use a lot of Moleskins?
I do not.
I use everything.
Well, do you ever use. So in the Moleskins that I use, there's the little pocket flap on the back interior cover, and inside that there's like a little piece that has information about Moleskine. And then there's a little sticker.
Oh, that quality control sticker.
Yes. What do people do with that?
So if you've ever had a quality control issue with them, they usually take care of it, but they want that damn number. So one of my Harry Potter ones showed up pretty messed up. So they gave me a store credit because they were out of it. But they wanted to know what the quality control number was.
Like a quality control sticker, but every one of them has a different pattern. Almost like they intend some use for it.
Yeah, the quality control number comes off of the rest of the sticker. It's like a two piece thing. But if you've got the sticker, you already know whether the notebook is messed up or not. So you don't really need the sticker, you just need the number. Okay. That justifies the fact that they're 14 or 15 bucks now.
So is there truth to the rumor that Moleskine has, like, slowly been, like, improving the quality of their paper? Again, like, it's I don't know.
I feel like they're like Ticondero. They're really inconsistent.
Yeah.
It's like I had a diary in 2009 that you could write with a Sharpie with. It was awesome. But my current one kind of sucks. Or it doesn't suck. It's standard Moleskine paper.
Yeah.
So who knows?
What are the moleskins that are fabric bound? Like, they have, like, a really thick weave. Fabric bound.
So the Little Prince diaries last year and this year were fabric. And then they have some kind of weird, like, two tone thing going on. Oh, they've always got something new and crazy. I think the new hello. I thought the new hello kitties were fabric.
Yeah.
So the Harry Potter one, the Marauders map is fabric. They said to mimic the feel of an antique map.
Okay.
Which sounds really stupid. You're holding it. You're like, this is awesome.
No, it sounds awesome.
Yeah.
The Patronus one was kind of lame, except for the fact that it's dementors on it, which would be a cool tattoo, so I bought that one.
Are you gonna get a Demetrius tattoo?
I don't know. I'm getting something Saturday, so we'll see.
You don't know what you're getting yet? You just have an appointment?
I feel like for the last. I've only gone, like, twice and knowing what I was getting. But one side is I figured it out that morning, so. Yeah.
Do you have any. Do you have any ways you're leaning?
So I thought one day we'd get our podcast host tattoos and have a cross section of round pencil, a hex pencil, and a triangular pencil. But since I have three kids, that sort of fits.
That's true.
Yeah. Or otherwise I might get something creepy because I like creepy tattoos.
Like a dementor.
Yeah. I kind of want to get a coffin or the. The skull from, like, a 17th century Salem gravestone, which Les will know exactly what I'm talking about if she's on here.
Yeah. Well, we can get a different tattoo if and when we. We all get together a beat.
I think we should just get something really big on our backs. This is, like, badass. Or otherwise get stuck on. I think I'm busy that day. We could get a giant scorpion, like the jacket from Drive, but like a giant tattoo on our backs.
Oh, how about a giant scorpion? And the tail is like a pencil tip.
All right, you said it, and now we have to get it.
Let me just call Tim and what's halfway like Chicago?
Yeah. Kansas City.
Well, I Think I throw it way off. I think halfway for me would be like. Would be like Denver.
Okay. It'll be like on the road. Gonna meet in Denver.
Okay. Sounds good.
Yeah. So. Oh, the only other fresh point I have is that if you live near a Target, they've got some cool new pencils going on and they finally mentioned the brand. It's called Vapor retail. And now they're on Instagram, which is cool. So you can see all the pencils that you need to go to Target and buy. Yeah, they had some that were like quarter sized pencils that were white with a gold dip in, I think Apex. So I only saw them once and I bought them all. So I don't know how long they're gonna be around. And they have those N tipped ones they've had for a while, but they're short and they're fat and. And the Coors fat. They're super nice. If you're near a Target, definitely pick a pack of those up. They also have cool gel pens, but we don't talk about those on here.
That's for your gel pen podcast.
Yeah. I mean, they have one that's like sparkly blue. Dark blue.
It's pretty beautiful, but sparkly dark blue.
Yeah, I'll send you one. So should we move on to our main topic?
Yeah, yeah. So we're moving right along, I guess. When will. When Tim's not here, he's just hold us back.
Well, it was a long weekend. We're all well rested.
That's true.
So, Courtney, can you tell us a little bit about what your job is at Hester and Cook?
And I think actually that I'm really interested to know, Courtney, kind of like more broadly what Hester Cook is and then how pencils and the pencil factory, like, fits into it.
Can you edit that? Delete what I said.
Oh, that's all right.
Okay. Yeah. So Hester and Cook, the core of what we do is actually tabletop related. So we do a ton of paper placemats, paper table runners, place cards. We even source vintage silver plate flatware and put those together into place settings that people, you know, use on their tables. It's very tabletop heavy in that arena, but as I'm sure you noticed, it's very paper as well. So from doing the paper, we kind of got into doing a little bit of stationery with a couple greeting cards. And that grew and grew and offered us the opportunity to get into pencils. So of course I jumped at that. If there's any way that I could Kind of work that, like, passion project into my real job. I was absolutely going to take it. So I just thought, well, you know, we're doing a little bit of tabletop paper or a lot of stationary. Like, let's expand that stationary category. And that's where you guys found the assorted pencil sets and things like that that were formerly branded under the pencil factory. But we've rolled all that branding into just our standard Hester and Cook name now. So it's very diverse, but a lot of fun. Super paper heavy, but in the best way possible. And it gives us the luxury of getting to work with these tools that we love all the time and we get to call it a real job. So I'm very fortunate.
So can you tell us a little bit specifically about your line of pencils that were formerly the pencil factory but now, like you have, you have, you sell a lot of pencils that if they're not impossible to find elsewhere, they're really, really hard. Like bridge pencils and fat hex pencils and there's really cool carpenter pencils that are half red and half graphite.
Yeah, yeah. So when we decided that we wanted to venture into doing pencils, we decided to take a road trip and go tour the actual factory that's manufacturing them, which is a third generation family owned operation. It's like super romantic. It looks just like you want a pencil factory to look. And they have an archive of all the pencils that they've made throughout the years, which was a hundred years of business in 2016. So there's a lot of pencils in that archive, a lot of different styles, and they let me take my time going through the whole thing and looking at everything that they've done through the years, everything that they still offer.
What? Yeah. Amazing.
It was like a dream come true. I couldn't believe I was like getting paid to do that. Like, I'm the luckiest person, but I saw things in their archive that I'm not seeing on the market currently. And I asked him, you know, can we still do these? And the answer was yes. So we went for it. I found like on the bridge pencil note, this pencil that they used to make called a steno. And it's long and skinny and is sharpened on both ends. So there's no eraser or feral or end cap or anything. It's like you can write on both sides of it. And they said that that was for stenographers so they could be like writing in their shorthand and then they could just flip the pencil over after it gets dull and keep writing without having to stop to sharpen. And also told that that same long, skinny style of pencil a lot of people would use for actually playing the game of bridge, which I'm not super familiar with the game, but after hearing that it had these awesome pencils I wished I had. Taking a look at that game, I've always.
Do you have theories on why, like, why that skinny pencil is called a bridge pencil? Courtney, I've heard some, but I'd be interested to know if you have too.
I mean, it was just what they told us at the factory was that that was used for the game of bridge.
Yeah.
Which I don't know why a skinny pencil would be desirable for that. I'm not sure exactly what the scorekeeping system.
Like. I wonder if it's because you can, like, it's skinny and small enough, you can just, like, tuck it into your pack of cards or, like, tuck it into, like, your. Like, your stuff. Like to pack it up and take it away.
I wondered the same thing. All the modern packs of cards that I've had are so tightly fitted to the. Like, the box fits to the card so snugly that you wouldn't be able to fit one. But, yeah, it could be a holdover of the way they used to package them.
The cynic in me thinks it's a bic for her thing.
It's like, oh, well, here's some extra special, like, lady pencils we can sell with the bridge players.
Yeah, I had a couple vintage Dixon used to make some secretary pencils. They called them the secretary pencil. They were really thin, and the ferrules were so thin. I think they were just cut off ferrules. Then none of them were closed all the way. Huh.
I've never seen one of those.
They're pretty. They're really pretty blue.
Well, why weren't they pink? I mean, they're secretaries for ladies.
I feel, like, too obvious.
Yeah. Just take it all the way home and make it.
Yeah. They probably came in, like, 40 colors because the ladies like colors.
Cool. Courtney, what is your background? Are you. Are you from a design world or art world or writing or anything like that?
You know, I don't have formal training as an art director or artist or anything like that. It's been something that's just grown very organically in my rise through the company. I actually started with them. It'll be 12 years ago this year, and we started with making vintage doorknobs into bottle stoppers. So different than what we're doing now, but it was a great start for us and it was so hands on and just such a very, like, tactile process. And another one of those things where I got to really enjoy the vintage aspect of the design that was happening at the time that, you know, the components were produced. So we started with that and I actually made every bottle stopper that we sold for like the first seven years. I was making them all by hand, but it got to be where I was making bottles from like, you know, 7pm to midnight and then going to bed, getting up, working in the office from 9 to 5, and then bottle stoppers from 7 to midnight again. I was like, wait, what am I doing? This is crazy. I handed off the bottle stopper part of it and just kept working in the office filling whatever roles needed to be filled. And as we grew, there became more and more of a need for design direction, for project management, for all those sorts of things that lead into having the luxury of touring a pencil factory as part of your job. So it just unfolded in front of me and it's been just such a very fortunate turn of events that I ended up working with something that I've loved my whole life. I've always loved stationery. I've been a paper person for as long as I can remember. I've always collected pencils. It's just kind of crazy that it led me down a path where now that's my job.
So are we correct to assume that Musgrave makes all of your pencils?
Yes, that is correct.
Awesome. Within Hester and Cook, why was it important for you folks to have your pencils produced in the usa?
On the tip of us hand making all these bottle stoppers out of vintage doorknobs, we're very grounded in authentic design and being hands on with our products and knowing where something came from, knowing the history of it being the next part in the step of a product, you know, it's overall legacy. So that's just who we are and it's where we come from. And our company as a whole is very invested in its culture and the area where we are and the fact that we have in our backyards one of the last operating pencil manufacturers in the country. How could we do it anywhere else?
Yeah, well, I love that Musgrave makes your pencils because I feel like you definitely like, kind of fit the aesthetic. And, you know, they. They produce pencils that are just like, just kind of like fit the look that I think you're. That you achieve. I Don't know if that's the right word. Just, like, right word for it. But I. I love that, though. They'll do, like, some of the more unusual designs, like bridge pencils and, like, the jumbo hex.
Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
Yeah, I definitely. I see Hester and Cook stuff a lot out here. There's a lot of, like, little boutiques and I call them hipster gift shops, things like that. But I say it with love, not with, like, you know, with like, not with disdain or anything, because they always have Hester and Cook pencils, and that's awesome.
Ah, well, I'm glad to hear it.
Yeah.
So, yeah, all of the paper products that you guys offer are really beautiful. I love the notebooks. I have that big notepad, which is really great. Are you going to. This is. I guess this is a little bit of a leading question. Would you be joining some other notebook makers in the future and offer a subscription service?
You know, we haven't talked about it as a company. As an individual at the company, I've thought about it to myself, but I haven't really floated the idea to the rest of the crew.
Yeah.
I would be curious to know if that's something that people are wanting from us because we always try to react to what our customer is looking for and, you know, give them what they're wanting.
Yeah.
But I haven't had a ton of requests for it. I've had requests for, you know, I mentioned doing the placemats. We've had people ask about doing Placemats of the Month.
But, yeah, that would be really interesting. I feel like. I feel like Caroline Weaver would be, like, so into that.
Yeah. I see on her Instagram sometimes they have our. We have like, a gray and gold marbled placemat. And I see that in the background of some of her things that she does. I'm like, oh, she's using our placemat, like, under the thing that she's writing.
Yeah.
So I get a kick out of that. But, yeah, I would love to be able to offer some kind of a monthly subscription or quarterly or whatever it might be subscription program. People could join if there's a need for it or a desire.
If anybody has any strong opinions either way, weigh in. I think you can do it in the group or on Twitter or you can email Courtney directly. Or if you're listening right now in the mixlr live stream, the Apple stair. That would be interesting.
Yeah. There's only one subscription pencil service and they're all, well, different. The Same. And you guys produce a lot of different shapes and sizes. That could be really cool.
Yeah, it's true. You're really the first ones who have pointedly asked, like, hey, is that going to happen?
Well, if it does happen, we'll trick. I'm just kidding.
So as a pencil user, not necessarily as at your job, what are your favorite pencils? Or a few of them.
Yeah, I'm most about, or I would say most about the aesthetic of the pencil and then the use. This may be terrible. The use is entirely secondary to me. Like, the thing that makes me pick up a pencil and want it in my collection is what it looks like. So I don't even find out how it writes or how it erases or whether it smudges or smears or what the point retention or durability is like until I've thought it was pretty enough to pick up. So I definitely lean toward things that have a design forward approach. I love stripes on pencils. I love stripes on ferrules. Yeah.
I feel like the trend this year was stripes.
Yeah.
Ticonderoga.
And they think it was,
no offense to Charles. The ugliest Black Wing we ever made. The 56. Sorry. The Ticonderogas were very pretty.
There are a lot of stripes were very pretty. Yeah. You're talking about Courtney, though. Stripes the other way.
Right?
Like around the barrel, up and down
the barrel, either way. Yeah. So I like the Ticonderoga stripes that were down the barrel. I'll take stripes however I can get them. I didn't even hate the Black Wing. I own a box of that, and I've enjoyed it. I think I might have actually used the Ticonderoga striped pencil more than I used the Blackwing, but, yeah, there's no love lost there.
Cool. What about some of your favorite pencil ephemera stuff, Courtney? What are some of your favorite erasers and sharpeners and caps? Not even for, like, necessarily aesthetic reasons, but just for, like, stuff you use a lot.
So I haven't really gotten into caps. I only own one that I picked up at CW probably a few trips ago. Wasn't the last time I was in there, but one of the recent ones. And it's just an inexpensive brass. It's not branded on it that I've noticed. And it has a slit on one side, so it can kind of expand to fit the pencil.
This is the. From E M. It may be. Those are nice. Those are really cool.
Yeah, that's the only one it does. It's really convenient. So that's been my one choice on the cap. I haven't even tried another, nor have I really had a need. I am not too hard on my pencils so I don't really break them often. I. If I am traveling with them, I'll often stick them like in the spine of whatever. Like the. On our journals we have like an O ring binding and I'll drop the pencil eraser side down, down the binding of it so I can just pull it out when I'm ready to write. So I don't even really. I don't need a cap very often but. But that is the one I own and I've enjoyed it on erasers. One of my favorites is one that I picked up on a trip to Germany at just a standard chain stationary supply. And it's a Pelican BR80 and it, it's red and blue sandwiching a white stripe horizontally. And the reds. Yeah, the red side erases pencil and the blue side indicates that it erases ink. It has a heavier grit to it, but it's a good looking eraser. It's red, white and blue. It's. It looks very vintage, but still it's a bra.
Oh man, that's pretty.
Yeah. So I ran across. We did a trade show in Germany. I mean we, we still do it but the first time that I went was several years ago and I picked one up for everyone on my design team and brought it back and was like, I just, you know, it's a little something. I know it's not much but like I love an eraser so it's a beautiful one. I hope you love it too.
Nice.
Yeah, it's a really good looking one and I honestly, it's so good looking that I haven't even used it. I might hoard a little bit.
It's the great irony of an eraser. It just like not even the irony. It's the curse of the eraser. Like you have to destroy it in order to actually like put love it and put it into use.
Yeah. To fully enjoy it, you have to destroy it. Same with pencils too.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah. So you mentioned erasers. So what's next from Hester and Cook for pencils stationery in as much as you can say. Yeah, if it's not secret.
If it's secret, we'll just turn off the recording and you can just tell just the two of us.
Well, we just did a big launch that was debuted this past week. So anything that's secret is still pretty deep in the Works right now I'm hoping to be able to do some more pencil designs though it's been. It's only really been about six or eight months, I think since our last debut on that front. But I'm ready to do more. I just love them. I can't get enough. I would love to do something with a striped ferrule on it or incorporate stripes somehow. But with our, with the way that we manufacture, from what I understand, the only way we can incorporate stripes onto the barrel of the pencil is with a wrap. And I don't really love wrapped pencils.
Yeah.
So don't get Andy started.
Yeah.
So Jumping Ken, one thing we forgot to put on here is all of your jumbo hex pencils. Each different color, has a different typeface, a different design, and a different name. So could you. Is there, is it a secret what the different pencils names are? Like the white one's volunteer and one's called the Hester, one's called the Stationer. Can you talk about that or is
is not a secret? I like that question and I wish that maybe the answer were a little deeper. But part of it's an aesthetic choice of just like the Stationer. To me, that kind of is an aesthetic tie in of it's a stationery product. Trying to make it look like it's from an old like long history stationery shop, which you don't find a whole lot of anymore in the U.S. but you know, they did exist. So that's the story on the Stationer, the Hester. Obviously the name of our company is Hester and Cook. It's founded by a husband and wife duo. Who Hester is the wife's maiden name. So when you see that on a product, she's actually like, as far as the creative side goes, she and I brainstorm on all the products. Nothing happens that we haven't really talked about and batted around for a lengthy period of time before I really take it and run with it with my team. Putting Hester on, that is not only a reference to our company, but it's a little callback to Angie, who plays such a big role in the creative development of our products. Yeah. And Volunteer that one. Tennessee is the Volunteer State.
Oh, that's true.
It is. Yeah.
We thought that was a good way to kind of reference Tennessee because that pencil also goes into our. What was formerly called the Nashville set. It's now called the Hester and Cook set. And all the pencils in that set have a reference back to Nashville or Tennessee or something. About our company being founded here. So it used to be the Hester pencil in that set, and we decided to change that one, you know, the ivory colored one, over to saying volunteer, so it fit in a little better with the set that all reference Nashville things.
What about the bridge pencil? It's called Bridge.
It is. So it's called Bridge, which for us was like a funny little fit, because bridge is what we were told the style of that pencil is, and that's what the manufacturer told us at the factory. But Nashville also has a lot of bridges that are touch points for the city. So we have a lot of pedestrian bridges Just outside our town. There's the Natchez Trace Bridge, which is absolutely beautiful. If you haven't had a chance to see it or drive the Natchez Trace, at least Google Image search it because it's gorgeous. So it was like a double use in that name where we could call it what it meant while still keeping it relevant to our city and also making it kind of apply to any city. As with some of the other pencils in there. Like, we have one called Midtown. A lot of cities have a Midtown. So people can still relate to that pencil name. But also to us, it has a deeper meaning because when we first moved the company out of Angie and Robbie's basement, we moved to this old building on Broadway in the midtown area of Nashville. So it's a deeper reference for us, but anyone can relate to having a midtown area in their city.
That's cool. Awesome.
Yeah. So we try to put a little bit of meaning behind it.
Yeah, absolutely. Should we talk a little bit more broadly about pencil aesthetics, just in general? Go on. I'm sorry.
Okay, so aesthetically speaking, not, you know, core speaking, what do you folks look for on a pencil?
I. I think a big thing for me is I. I like just like some, like, colors in there, and not something even necessarily where there's just like a lot of colors, but just like. Just like some unusual color choices. I love. I think I'll talk about this a little bit later, but on the, The. The Tombow, like the KM KKS pencil, which is just one of my very favorites. There's. It's kind of this blue and white pencil, but there's randomly just sort of like this orange, like, cap, like, top on the. On the top of it on the cap. It's just gorgeous. I just love the, like, little random color choice on there.
Oh, that's like your. Your affection for the. That Naturage pencil.
Yeah, the Naturage pencil.
Same thing.
I love. Yeah. I love how they use. Yeah. Like, it's not just a colorful pencil. It's a. They use just like, some, like, random, but, like, very, you know, accenting colors.
Yeah.
Very complementary. So I. I love pencils that. Yeah, just have a. Just a nice, like, little bit of a extra color choice, like, as part of it. How about you? Yeah, I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
No, I'm done.
I'm interrupting you.
Yeah. What do you think, Courtney?
I love the. The color. Also. I have one of those Nataraj pencils that's striped again. It's a green, white, and blue stripe with the orange dip tip.
Oh, yeah, yeah. Love that color.
I love that. It's just so good. I wish that we had more capability like that in the States to be able to produce something that looked like that. I also love the imprint on a pencil. That's one of the biggest areas for somebody to take creative control over the pencil and do something that just looks great. So that's something that I definitely look for.
I definitely like a stamp. Moreover, something that's been stamped down in, like, foil stamped, rather than something that's been just like, you know, like, silk screened on or, God forbid, foil wrapped. Yeah.
Yes. I totally agree with you there. But I also. I really love getting to see the wood of the pencil, which. Not a lot of Getting to appreciate the, you know, the wood casing on the pencil. When it's covered in paint, you kind of forget that it's even there as an aesthetic choice. So I have a sleeve of vintage Musgrave pencils called, I guess it's a Monona, and they were a beautiful, like, clear, varnished, dark wooden pencil with a white imprint on them. They looked great. And this is something that they actually let me take one out of the archive, and so it's now in my pencil hoard. It's just design inspiration. And yeah, it. The typeface on it is very basic, super legible, and has just a little bit of, like, a filigreed hit to it. But it's a plain, like, natural wood clear varnish with just white imprint stamping on it. And it looks great. Wish there were more things like that available on the market these days.
That's lovely. Yeah.
So that plus striped ferals, that's. That's my go to.
How about you, Johnny?
So I want to say that I like interesting pencils, but looking at my favorite pencils, I tend to favor stuff that's kind of muted and something that's got something muted and Attractive on the butt of the pencil. Okay.
Such as. That's a good example of that. Like the camel.
Yeah, the natural camels with the gray butter or something with a subtle, nice, thick dip on the end. Yeah, I like a nice end dip. She sounds like a butt joke. I really like.
You like end dips, and you cannot lie.
End dips and bare metal ferrules. Yeah, that's my jam, huh?
So it's a little bit the opposite of what Courtney and are saying over here.
I know. I want to say I like bright pencils, but.
No, it's all right.
It's the middle of January. Whatever. Pencil and the gray. So aside from, you know, what you're looking at with your eyes when you think of pencil aesthetics, what do you think of.
You want to go first, Courtney?
Yeah. For me, beyond just the visuals, there's the feel in your hand, and not just how the graphite writes, but how the pencil holds in your hand, the way it feels after writing over a period of time, whether it's still comfortable or if you realize that you now own one of those pencils. That was the reason that they invented pencil grips. So I go for something that doesn't ever require a pencil grip to be applied. After some period of time, I want to be able to write and not hate my pencil. So that. That's big for me. And then, of course, the cedar smell.
Oh, yeah. I was just at a party last night where I brought over some pencils, and I was sharpening them, talking about them, and we were talking about incense.
What?
What?
You have to elaborate on this.
Yeah. Why weren't we invited to this party?
What are you talking about? What's going on?
So you went to a pencil at which you took pencils, and. I'm sorry, you went to a party at which you took pencils and sharpened them and were talking about pencils.
I did.
I want to know about this party.
Yeah,
sorry.
I was just like, you're laughing. Was. That was throwing me off?
No, no, it was laughter of joy.
Yeah, yeah. No, it was. It was just next door, he was like, why do you like pencils? And so I went back over here, and I, like, grabbed some pencils and I brought them back over there. And part of what I did is I sharpened them and had everybody just smell like the sharpening. And I was like, that's like, smell that. It smells like a forest. It smells like cedarwood. And they were like, it does. That's amazing.
Whoa.
So I got everybody to sniff pencils.
That's awesome. You're like, the question is, why don't you like pencils?
Yeah, what's your problem if you don't?
What's up with you, fella?
Yeah, no, yeah, it was. It was just right next door, like, in, like, across the hall in my apartment complex.
Oh, I'm picturing you, like, pushing a cart, like, pencil gear.
Like, get your pencils here.
Yeah, but that's cool, too.
Yeah. I think when I, like, when I am trying to, like, consider a pencil aesthetically, kind of like, as Courtney said, like, the way it feels in your hand, I definitely feel like the weight has something to do with it. Like, if it's usually, like, usually if it's light and springy, then it's not, like, interesting to me. The exception of that being the Baron Fig Archer. I think that's a feature, not a bug with them. But generally, I like something a little bit heavier and something that has an eraser on the end of it to kind of, like, add a nice counterpoint when you're using it. I really like a thickly lacquered pencil, generally. I think so. What about a Wolfex, A Wolpex? It is. Yeah, it is a little heavier. I do like holding a Opex. They're grippy. Yeah, they're grippy. I like just, like, pressing in with my fingernail just because it's a little rubbery. Yeah.
Yeah.
The disappointment with the whoop X doesn't come until you start writing.
Hey,
it's not for everybody. No, I definitely feel like. Yeah. Just, like, the thickness of the lacquer and, like, the weight is definitely a big factor besides just the visual. Just the visual aspects. Yeah. So that's. That's a big thing. Courtney, what are some of your favorite, like, looks for a pencil? Like, what? Pencils just, like, look especially attractive to you and why.
So one that I could say I actually bought multiple of but have yet to use is the Koh I Noor Hardmuth. I guess a triograph. It's the triangular, big fat pencil with its wood showing.
Yeah.
And it has, again, I see now a stripe on it. So I do keep with my themes. It has the horizontal stripe going, as a feral would, with the black dip tip. And I actually bought that in a couple different hardnesses of lead. And the different lead grades had different, slightly different wood colors, which I really appreciate. So I ended up coming home with a couple of those from my first trip to cw. But another thing that I will look for is something that is just totally different from anything else that I own if there's, like, this novelty aspect and not novelty and like, you know, a wrapped pencil with birthday cakes and it smells like birthday cake, but, yeah, that
could be cool too.
Yeah, I might buy that
just for example.
Yeah. She had in her shop a little pencil that looks just like a cigarette, the length of a cigarette. It has a matte finish on it, which is an unusual to have, like, an opaque matte finish. And it just looks exactly like a cigarette.
So it's remarkable how much it looks like a cigarette.
Yes.
Yeah.
I'm sorry. I keep one of those in my car, like, on the visor, for when I want to look cool. This is not a joke.
Keep it behind your ear.
There's a picture on Instagram of me rocking that with a nice cappuccino.
Yeah. On that trip, when I picked up that pencil, I came home and poured out all my pencil goodies in front of my daughter to show her, you know, my haul from cw. And she was like, what's that like? It's a pencil.
She's like, smoke them if you got them.
It's my friends. I'm just holding it for a friend.
Has anybody ever tried smoking the cedar shavings?
Just me. That makes probably cheaper than cigarettes.
Yeah,
Taxes.
So. I know. I'm a big fan. There's something about the Japanese pencils, like, especially that I just really love. Like, that KMKKS is probably my favorite kind of, like, visual pencil. Courtney, are you familiar with this one?
No, I was actually just about to Google it.
Yeah, yeah, do it. Kmkks.
Dee just did a good post comparing that.
She actually posted in that the two pencils that I think are just sort of the most attractive in the world. I think I mentioned something to Dee when she. When she did that, but it's that. Yeah, it's that mono kmkks. And then it's also that Mitsubishi penmanship.
That is a gorgeous, gorgeous piece of pencil.
And I. I was trying to think of just why. Just, like, it looks so amazing to me, and I just. I'm not. I mean, besides the color choices and the, like, random assortment of information that they have, like, listed on the barrel, it's just. Just beautiful. And I just like it a lot. It's just like, of amazing quality, too. Everything's just precise and perfect. The glossiness is just, like, unrivaled on those. So I think that's why, like, you know, the Blackwing is not trying to look like a Japanese pencil. I mean, it is a Japanese pencil, but it, you know, they have a Very like Eberhard Faber American aesthetic. But I think in some ways that, like, original Eberhard Faber aesthetic is just seen a lot in these Japanese pencils. Like, there were. There's always, like, way more information on the barrel than, like, happens currently. You know, the Abraham Faber ones would say wood clinched, or they would say, like, electrographic graphite or something like that.
Yeah.
They spent more time, like, putting, like, the right information on the barrel, and they used, like, really beautiful custom typefaces. Yeah. So I think that for the same reason, I think, like, vintage Eberhard Faber pencils and modern day, like, Japanese pencils are among my favorite aesthetically.
Oh, man. So I enjoy the thick lacquer, but usually I go for something sort of natural or naked.
Yeah.
Yeah. My first love.
Yeah.
Even the right note Lenore pencil that was dyed black and it's some sort of thin finish on it was still naked enough. Like, something like. That hits me.
Yeah.
So do you like it with no lacquer on it at all or just a clear lacquer?
Both, but no lacquer is always better. Okay. Like, I want it to get dirty and, like, I want to smell the pencil before it's sharpened.
Yeah. You could, like, really get a patina going on a totally unlacquered light wood pencil just from the oil of your hand touching it and from, you know, the little bit of graphite that it'll pick up just from wear.
I've had a few cedar points that smell like coffee by honey, I'm sure. Yeah. So if you could think of the most absolutely beautiful pencil in the entire world, you know, writing or eraser weight with standing. What would that look like?
Oh, my gosh. I don't have a quick answer to that.
I think I've already made my. Made my pronouncements about those Japanese pencils, but.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, those are such. And I was admiring after I realized that I actually own a kmkks, I picked it up and was looking at the imprint on that, and their characters have lines that are so close to each other but are still entirely legible. Like, that foil imprinting is unparalleled in clarity.
I have no idea how they must. They must do it so, like, quickly and get that down in there without breaking the lacquer.
You know what I mean? Yeah. The paint doesn't have any show. Like, it doesn't show any sign of impression being pushed down into there. But the foil cut is entirely clean. There's no stray fragments of foil left behind. Yeah, that's really just gorgeous.
Yeah. Yeah, they do it really well. And Mitsubishi does it really well. Yeah. Something like Black Wing has gotten a lot better over the years, but still, like, I don't think that they do it nearly as well as those two companies.
Yeah. For me, Black Wings are striking. For the feral alone, it sets it apart so. So much from another pencil, you know, in an instant when you're looking at one of their pieces.
Yeah, I do really like the. Like the Palomino Golden Bears. They generally have a nice stripe on the ferrule. Like the, like the blue one with the orange eraser has. Is that a blue stripe? Why am I not remembering correctly?
The Golden Bears.
Golden Bears, yeah.
Do they still alternate, but blue or orange?
Orange.
Yeah. Yeah, there's. I think, yeah, the, the. The ones that are blue barrels and an orange eraser have a red stripe on them. And then the ones that are orange with. Oh, I think they have a red stripe or like a dark orange stripe maybe. Same thing. Yeah. Big fan of those. When you're.
I do have to say that.
Oh, sorry.
As far as the. As far as the wraps go, I have some. They're now vintage. When I got them, they were, you know, first issue and I see it now says 1996 on it from Stylus Writing Instrument Company. But some Beavis and Butthead pencils. Any pencil for my mango, it actually says, I am Cornfolio. I need tp. There's a half eaten hamburger. The Beavis and Butthead logo. Beavis with his shirt, you know, pulled up over the back of his head when he's Cornholio has an MTV logo. Like, you know, I don't like a wrap pencil, but actually I love this one and the other one that came in the same pack with it. That's just a pattern of Beavis and Butthead dancing with slices of pizza.
I think they might have some things to say about Johnny's. Johnny, he likes something on the butt.
Yeah.
Shut up.
Absolutely.
So I think a natural pencil with a silver ferrule and a pink eraser is sort of the apex of pencil design. And there aren't enough of these. There needs to be a black wing that looks like this. Yeah. With the 20. The extra. Sorry, quote, extra firm or quote firm core. That could be the perfect pencil.
Yeah. That's interesting.
So I saw some people were saying that they love the extra information imprinted on a pencil. And I know that I'm always looking for more imprint on a pencil, but what are you guys looking for as far as the information Conveyed from an imprint.
I may be not looking for something so much informational as I am for just like those extra little phrases and taglines and things. Like, I do love half the pressure, twice the speed. I really love the Mitsubishi 9000. The general writings one that says made by elaborate process.
Yes, I love that.
Yeah, yeah, me too.
That's really fantastic.
That's a good tattoo
from an American pencil. I think part of it is like the translation, you know, like it. Yeah, it adds something to it.
Yeah, I do. Like. Oh, I know that generals has like, like some of their hex pencils. They put the little, like hex with the circle in the middle, like as a. Like a cutaway. They put that on the pencil itself. So I don't know, I kind of like some extra information like that. There's like Eberhard Faber occasionally had that, like, you know that wood clinched is the motto that came off the back of like, some of those Eberhard Faber pencils. What about you, Johnny?
Well, as an aside, that could be a really good first tattoo for you.
Made by elaborate process.
No wood clinched. Wood clinched in that. The font that's on like the early 80s Mongols.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I also.
Wood clinched.
You said wood. Shut up, Buddha. We're talking about pens.
Okay, we're just gonna do this for the rest of the episode. Is that cool with everybody?
Sorry, guys.
No, it's funny.
I feel like I'm in between. Like, I miss the California Republic part of the Palomino HB pencil line. But on the other hand, you know, I'd like at least one side of the pencil to not have anything on it or maybe two consecutive sides to be naked and that. Yeah, that doesn't always happen on the nicest pencils like Faber. Castell wants to brag about how environmentally friendly they're their finishes by stamping the hell out of it.
Yeah.
With non renewable gold foil. Okay. You guys don't get some.
No.
Yeah, but yeah, makes sense.
What about you, Courtney?
What are you.
What are your favorite, like, information to read on the side of the pencil?
For me, the only piece that I'm really looking for is them to name the pencil and tell me where it's made and the grade of lead that's in it. And then everything else is extra and I would love it.
Yeah.
So I love, like little icons thrown on there that probably have some reference back to something that means who knows what. But I'm sure it has a meaning, which is like a little. It's almost like a breadcrumb trail that I can follow to dig into the meaning that they put on the pencil. But really I need a name, a country, and a grade.
Yeah.
So also, I feel like old pencils used to have the purpose on there too, like.
Oh, yeah. For general writing or for bathroom.
Who cleaned it Checklist pencil. They were really specific about stuff. I really miss that.
That's true.
That's part of the reason I like the history of cook pencils. Everything's got like a name and like, the Japanese pencils have a pretty. If you put them all together, be very happy.
Yeah. So actually, here's a question for everybody. How do you feel about barcodes on your pencils?
Yeah, no thanks.
Necessary evil.
Somebody actually left a comment on a blog post of mine not that long ago in defense of those barcodes, and I'm trying to find it here. Essentially, it was basically just about like, you know, they would rather have it be like, stamped in the pencil barrel than be on, like a sticker that can tear off and just get glue all over the place.
Yes, the residue is a problem.
Yeah, I totally understand that. That happens to me. And I guess I can assume that not most. Like, most people don't rub their. Like rub that with rubbing alcohol to get the extra residue off. They just have a slightly, like, I do gummy pencil for a while. Good. I'm sure most of us listening to this podcast or on this podcast probably
do have a dedicated bottle of alcohol
just for that purpose, just for getting sticker residue off.
So Karen Dash did a good thing where they put a little piece of plastic on the end of the pencil that has the barcode, and then you can rip that off when you're done.
Oh, nice.
It's gone. They're like singular doing that.
I generally don't care for the barcode, and I know that is one thing that kind of ruins that mono kmkks for me is that it does have. It does have the barcode on there. Most of the Japanese pencils do, I think, because they're also, like, pretty efficient. You don't have to worry about things getting mislabeled. They just stick that SKU on there like that upc, like at the factory.
It's funny because I was noticing on the barcode on that kmkks that the barcode is a one spot, that the imprinting doesn't look phenomenal.
That's true. Like, it happened. Like, it looks like maybe it went through afterwards.
Yeah, it did. Well, it's a white on that and all the other foil stamping on it is silver.
Yeah.
Which was also nice that they. They picked a color that coordinated with the rest of the pencil. But they, you know, still, they toned it down. They didn't use the silver. They gave it its own process for adding that barter code.
Probably the silver. I bet it wouldn't scan very well. Like, it might not be high contrast.
No, it wouldn't.
Yeah.
It would be reflective.
Yeah. But, yeah, barcodes. So I'm interested to know, Courtney, do you have any. Any idea that what. What to you is the ugliest pencil that you've ever used or seen?
Oh, man. I would say probably what. I know what other people might think is the ugliest pencil, and I feel like it might get some of the, like, Wopex hate that our community has.
That's unfounded.
But I had this pencil when I was in fourth or fifth grade, so this is the early 90s. And it was from Sanrio, which is the company with hello Kitty and all of that. It was a clear casing of sorts. It wasn't a true casing, but a clear casing that had an imprint all over it. That was Keroppi, the frog character. They had little scenes with their frog character on a clear casing. And then the lead in it was. You could, like, see through to the lead, but the whole thing was pliable. So you could bend the entire pencil.
What?
Oh, yeah. I remember these. Yeah.
It didn't write very well, you know, since it had so much of that, like, plastic, rubbery aspect to it. It had a very light imprint on the page, but it was so cool. But I'm sure that now, you know, if I were to encounter that for the first time today, I would probably think it was a hideous pencil. But. And I loved just sharpens it.
It's. It's like. Not a glue stick, but like. Like a hot glue gun stick.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It seems very much
later.
Yeah, you probably could have. It was really funky. When you would sharpen it and pull it out of the sharpener, you could see exactly where the sharpener stopped because it wouldn't give you that clean cut. Or maybe from a flip side, it gave you too clean of a cut. It didn't blend it the way that wood does.
Yeah. Just keep on going.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What about you, Johnny Golden Bear? Oh, boo.
That's the ugliest.
No, Johnny is just trying to retaliate for that Wolpex comment.
I don't know. I think. I don't know. It's hard to decide. I think Something with colorful erasers that tends to turn me off.
Yeah.
I like a pink eraser, maybe white or black, but when the erasers start matching the pencil. Too much.
Yeah, too much. Too much.
That's my ugly.
Yeah. So actually. So a pencil that is so ugly, I actually really like it. Is the testing. The testing 100 pencil, just that, like, silver with that weird ass font on it. Like, it's so ugly and it's so big. Kind of cute. It is so big.
The imprint.
Yeah, I agree with it because I think it's cute.
Yeah. Yeah.
It reminds me of, like, old IBM, like computer age. Like, we're just getting into the technology, but we're still using pencils.
That pencil reminds me of a pan I found in a parking lot. Like, I ride over that car twice.
Ugly.
It's a piece of crap. Why does anybody do this? But somebody will use it.
Yeah, somebody uses it.
People are.
I think if I were to pick like a ugly pencil, like, that was not sort of like, cute in its. In its ugliness. Probably just like a. Like a crappy Office Depot pencil like that. Like the really just muddy yellow pencils.
Yeah.
Like a bright yellow pencil. Like a Ticonderoga is like, like lovely and just like very, you know, just very iconic. But, you know, some. Some of the yellows are just this. This gross, cheap brownie, brownish yellow pencil. And I don't. I don't like those very much.
Yeah. Then the ferals are very shiny.
Yeah.
It's like, why?
Yeah.
Yeah. Some that I really can't stand are ones that have the wrap on them, but you can see where the wrap overlaps itself.
Oh, yeah.
And then sometimes they'll even go so far as to do a foil imprint over wraps. And I just don't understand that. But one thing I could do with a little less of is the lead. That is a composite of multiple colors. So when you color or when you write, it looks like vomit.
The magic pencils.
Yeah, it's just. It's not a good look.
Yeah.
So I feel like you can do that well or do it badly. Like, those magic pencils look like crap, but there are some from Camel that are the perfect rainbow. If you twirl your fingers just right while you write, it's perfectly Roygy Biv. But, you know, that's not really practical to do anything with. Like, Charlotte could sit there at a coffee shop and rotate them and actually, like, color with yellow and color with blue.
But it's kind of like using a harmonica. Like, I can't Blow into a harmonica and make an actual sound. It just comes out, like, with all of the sounds.
Charlotte is the rainbow pencil of that guy from Blues Traveler.
She is toxic. She does.
She's like, I think I need glasses, daddy. Pretty sure you don't.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. Anything else we should talk about in pencil aesthetics? Any questions from the crowd? I was going to go over and look at some of the Facebook comments on our thread about that to see what people have been saying.
So while you look at that, can I ask about the white pencil? Because that's a really, really specific thing that you guys have a separate set for. It's a pencil with sort of a really specific utility, but within that use, it's really, really awesome pencil.
Yeah. Yeah. So we have this whole line of what we call chalkboard papers. So it's just a black paper, but it makes it really fun to write on with that white pencil that we make. And it's a whole different writing experience. And I see our customers suddenly get so creative. Like, they will tell me that they are not a creative person, they're not an artist, this or that, and then they'll pick up one of those, and I see them, like, start to doodle instantly. It just unlocks something in people. So that. That's just such a cool thing to me.
Yeah, that's cool.
But, yeah, so that's. That's the one that we named the Midtown pencil. So it. For us, like, that was the first place that we moved after, you know, I was saying, after we moved out of the owner's home, running the business from that, we moved into the Midtown location. So it's like a first step kind of thing. And I see that also happening with the customers when they tell me that they're not creative and they can't think of nice things to do with papers. And then I see them pick that up, and it becomes the first step for them of figuring out something that they can do that is creative and is artistic. Or also, for some people, is the first time they actually even enjoyed writing with a pencil.
Yeah. Somebody in the chat, Mika, wants to know if those chalk pencils are also made by Musgrave.
They are.
Yeah. That's cool.
Yep.
Yeah, they're really. I wrote on my kitchen cabinets with them because I thought they were chalk. They're not chalk, so it's still.
They're not chalk.
But my coffee mug cabinet says, daddy rules, so Esther and Cook to thank for that.
I mean, it'll come off sentiment.
Yeah. I don't want it to come off right now.
Yeah, I actually heard that from a couple people. Not on their cabinets but on a slate chalkboard. I'm like, well, it's a chalk style pencil. And so we have changed the packaging to make it even more obviously. State that like it doesn't erase, it's chalk style. Like it's poor. It's recommended for use on paper. Like all this stuff. I'm like, I don't want anyone to ruin their chalkboard or cabinet with it.
They do write on windows. I've written on windows for them before.
Oh, I haven't tried that.
It's very beautiful mind right on your mirror in your library windows.
Oh, I'll totally have to try that now.
Yeah, I've never done Cool. So yeah. Here's some of the things people have been saying about what they like in pencils. Craig Crow says he likes. He's a sucker for attention to detail in the Feral or the UN Dip, a stripe or some artful ribbing. Something to distinguish the pencil from the ocean of similar products out there. Some pencils that do that really well are like the Stadler Norris and the Faber Castell 9000, the NDIP and then the Ferrules, the USA Gold, the Blackwing 530, the Mongols, the Maraudos. You know, I think some pencils use the Ferrule stripe as kind of their signature. Like Mongols and Ticonderogas. Dylan really likes a classic look, like an interesting typeface. He also likes too much information. So if the foil stamping is too minimal, it's just a little boring. The, oh, what are they called? The Shazanes pencil. Like the Goldfish. They have a lot of information on them. He likes that the General's goddess has an amazing typeface that say General Pencil Company. He loves that they put like they write all of that out. You know, it doesn't just say like generals. He also likes interesting ferrules. When you look at it, it looks unique. Let's see. Charles de Curtis really likes pencils with, with dipped ends. He wishes that like all of the best pencils were were offered like a version of the dipped ends. He also hates barcodes. Lee Jones thinks the color of the barrel is pretty important. And his favorite, the Tombow 2558 is really great. How they take kind of a traditional yellow design and then they make it a little bit orange and then basically put like a burgundy ferrule on it to make it stand out. I agree. First when I saw that one I thought it was like a Little boring. But then I just like the more I kind of like looked at it with the purple ferrule, I guess I saw purple, he saw burgundy. And then that orange. That yellow. Orange is a little bit different too. Yeah, that's interesting. And then Jan Scott actually likes barcodes.
She goes.
She'd rather have a printed barcode at the end that you would sharpen with a cheap stick which leaves glue that will not come off and stick to the sharpener. So she actually likes the barcode like printed on it.
Somebody to interrupt. Sorry, go on. Sometimes at art shops are my favorite art shop. Since Generals generally doesn't use barcodes. It sort of causes havoc. When you check out with a bunch of Generals singles, they're like, oh my God, what's the layout? What's the drafting? What's the to be? Kimberly? It's like something is usually pretty good
when they're in singles. Yeah, that's true. So yeah, somebody mentioned the. Oh, actually Ann Sipe is going to do a giveaway and include a Nashville sampler box, which is cool.
Awesome.
What are we calling it now, Courtney? It's just the History Click Sampler. Cool. Yeah. I was going to go over to Twitter and see if anybody there has. Yeah, somebody likes. Second favorite thing on Twitter, Likes thinks less is more. So a very simple color scheme and not too much text. Scott Heath suggests that something that is something that's very well thought out, that stands out from the crowd is best. So probably something where there's like an attention to detail and actually has something that's useful in the details. And of course Topher says something that looks like it's been made with care and not just materials thrown together. Which is something that happens a lot in pencils are honestly.
Yeah, true.
Yeah. Adam Blaine from the desk of Adam thinks likes, likes all black everything. So I think like the CW pencils pencil and like the Linn Blacking 24, I think that yeah, that's right up like Adam's alley. I don't know. I don't mind all black pencils, but I just really like some colors. Like an all black pencil with like a little like hint of some other color would be really great.
So we're gonna sign off. Courtney, can you tell folks where to find you professionally and if you want also personally on social media and Internet?
Yeah, sure. So general Internet. The company is hesterandcook.com and that's all storage and conveniently it is the same for every platform we're on. On social media we are all at Hester and cook and is all spelled out. And personally I'm at Courtney Cochran and that's C O C H R a N and that's on Instagram.
Excellent. How about you, Andy?
I am on on the Internet as woodclinched. W O-C-L-I-N C-H-E D.com and then I personally am on Twitter as Wealthley. A W E L F as in frank. That's what I usually say. I was trying to think of like a good pencil that starts with an F off the top of my head. F as in feralie. And also on Instagram is that same. So how about you, Johnny?
So as of today, I actually blog again on pencil revolution.com and yeah, on Twitter pensolution. And I'm on Instagram at my whole name. Well, my nickname, slash and last name. Oh, no punctuation. Yeah. You know what would be a really good no hashtag. No one calls me John.
I don't think you know how hashtags work, Johnny.
Charlotte has a problem with air quotes like I'm so sorry, you don't mean that.
I think somebody should make a social media handle that is just the words my whole name. So they could really troll people like, oh, what's your handle? And just be like, oh, it's yhole name. And then I can't find it anyhow.
My Internet Persona name because John is not my real name and Gamber is not my real last name. Mystery man
hashtag Mr.
All right, so we are the Erasable Podcast. The world's first, last, best and worst pencil centric podcast. You can find us on the Internet at Erasable Us. This particular episode will be at erasable us67. We are on Facebook at facebook.com erasablepodcast on Twitter erasablepodcast on Instagram raceablepodcast. And we are 1500 strong@facebook.com groups erasable, which is the best group that was on Facebook as of when Andy left. There was a poll and a memo that went out that we are the best Facebook group in existence.
Excellent. Mark Zuckerberg even signed it.
I can prove it, man. I got a screenshot of it.
I concur.
So thanks for listening and catch us as we approach episode 70.
Woo hoo.
We're almost at three years. Yeah. Holy.
That is how hashtags work.
Foreign.
The intro music for the Erasable podcast is graciously provided by this Mountain, a collaborative folk rock band from Johnson City, Tennessee. You can check out their music@www.thismountainband.com.
I can taste the days of a
long, hot summer if I could just
count the time this has happened before.