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Transcript
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Johnny's arm before God, there's a Patreon reward no one wants.
Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Erasable podcast. This is episode 41. I am on hosting duties tonight. I am Andy Welfle from Woodclinched and today I'm joined by the two hottest Cyber Monday deals, Johnny Gamber and Tim Wasem. Hey, guys, we're both free.
That's the deal.
Yeah. In fact, I'll pay you to take them, please. It's extra special tonight because we have a guest on who we've wanted to have for a while. He has his own podcast called Covered. We're joined by Harry Marks. Hey, Harry.
Hey, Andy. How are you?
I'm good. Harry and I met a couple years ago through app.net of all things. He's always been into analog tools, paper and fountain pens and things. And he recently started getting into pencils. So he's been a pretty active, good group member.
Yeah, I like pencils. They're far less maintenance than the fountain pens I ink and never use, so.
And yeah, I love fountain tens too, but yeah, they're so lower maintenance. Um, you don't have to, like, it's not a science to try to figure them out. It's, it's. I mean, it's fascinating listening to the pen addict and hearing them talk about, you know, the nibs and the cartridges and the barrels and everything, but, man, it's so involved and expensive.
Expensive. And I mean, the angst are like collecting Pokemon, you know, Got. Got to catch them all.
Gotta catch them all. Yeah, so, yeah, we are, we're doing that. We are also streaming on mixlr, so by the time you're all listening to this, it's going to be too late to hear the streaming. But in the future, you can go to mixlr, mixlr.com erasable and then you can see all the show notes for this episode at erasable US 41. Yeah. So Harry's going to talk to us kind of when we get to the main topic about writing kind of long form with pencils, which he has done. Harry's written more than one novel, at least one by hand, which is amazing, and I have lots of questions about that. So let's. Let's jump into the tools of the trade first. Harry, you are a guest of honor. Why don't we start with you?
Okay.
What are you drinking? Drinking and writing with?
I am drinking two fingers of Woodford Reserve and it's delish. And I am Using I'm writing with two different pencils. For the longest time, I fought the love and appeal of the Palomino Blackwing 602 until I found the right pressure with which to use it. Did you know that written on the side of this thing, it says half the pressure, twice the speed? Because.
So I've heard.
Because it was something that I just never really did did. And when I figured it out, because I have giant hulk hands, I'm six three, you know, you've met me. I have taller in real life. It's. Yeah, exactly. Taller in real life. It was. It was a revelation to. To use like the lightest touch possible and realize like this thing actually had some really great point retention. And then Caroline Weaver had recommended, when you and I had met up at CW Pencils, the USA General Cedar point number one. And that's been really, really nice to use too.
Yeah.
Oh, and I'm using the. The story supply co notebook that I got from Kickstarter and it's fantastic.
Yeah, Vito, I believe is on the chat. So you guys did a great job with that. That notebook.
Yeah.
Johnny.
What?
Well, where am I, Tim? What are you drinking and writing with?
I'm just drinking a glass of wine tonight. Cab Salve, the cheap stuff. And I'm writing with a bullet pencil that got a few months ago. It's a Chicago feed supply company. Or it's actually. No, that's a different one. This is the Mutual that I have a few. I try to collect the Chicago pencils bullet pencils. But this one is the Mutual Livestock Commission Company in the Exchange Building Union stockyards, Chicago.
Oh yeah, I think I've seen a picture of that one.
Yeah. So I'm using that and it has a surprise, surprise palomino HB stub in it.
I thought you hated that pencil.
It's the worst. But I have so many, I have to just use all of them. So what about you, Johnny?
Well, I'm taking a break from my usual non drinking and drinking alcohol on a weeknight. On Thanksgiving, I saw an ad on Instagram for something from Crown Royal called the Northern harvest rye and liking ryes. I sought it out. So that's what I'm drinking. And it's delicious. I just won some sort of award. There was a first time for Canadian whiskies, which was in the ad and that's why I bought it. But if you like rye, it's super good. And I'm writing with a non eraser to Wopex from last Christmas. I got an envelope from Staedtler with just a ton of pencils rubber banded together and no note from Germany. I was like, okay, so that was in there. So I have one of those and cherry wood. Because my damn field notes aren't here yet. On a sour note. How about you, Andy?
I'm actually like, your snowblind art here yet?
No. And I'm a subscriber.
I'm super pissed. Yeah. Anyhow, sorry. I am drinking an anchor porter. I do love me an anchor beer and the porter. It's. It's gotten a little cold in the past few days. It's like been down to almost freezing at night. Really not quite there. Yeah, there's. This is kind of the cold season, the beginning of like December generally, and it starts to rain during the day and it just like, it's a little frosty at night. So I'm. I've been cold all day, so I'm drinking an anchor porter and I am writing in my Shenandoah field notes with the Palomino 211. That is just about at the Steinbeck stage. Like another two sharpening, it'll be there.
So which Shenandoah?
The sweet birch, which is my favorite. It's the one with the. I'm trying to use it up. I'm actually currently in the staple day. I'm having my staple day today.
Congratulations.
Thank you. Staple day and Steinbeck stage.
There's so many stupid terms for Steinbeck stage and staple day. I love it. We're such geeks. Yeah. So I'm writing in that. And yeah, that is. That is my notebook. Staple day in Steinbeck stage with Harry Marks.
Cool.
We should talk about some fresh points. Harry, I don't mean to put you on the spot. I don't know if you have any to talk about anything you want to mention to everybody about pencils?
Oh, about pencils. Okay.
Yeah. Or in general.
I'll save this for the other podcast I'm going on.
I mean, feel free to plug anything else that you want to plug too. We'll do that at the end as well. But still.
Yeah, I don't really have anything fresh, pointy to talk about pencil related, you know, in terms of plugging anything. Spoke to a great author yesterday, Robert James Russell, for my show about a western he had written called Mazia, which is really, really excellent. And that comes out on Friday. But other than that, nothing much.
How would you. How would you describe your podcast to those in the group in the. Who are listening who may not know it?
It is a Recording of sound put on the Internet.
Radio. On the Internet.
The, the short pitch is radio show.
Exactly. It's Internet on the radio. It's. It's a conversation. The, the short pitch, you know, the, the log line is. It's a conversation about books with the people who write them. And for the most part, that's what I've stuck to. I bring on authors to talk about their books and the writing process, and then once in a blue moon, I'll have on someone who may be. So, for example, on Wednesday, I'm talking to a literary agent about the role of the agent in an author's career and what the agent offers as opposed to if you were going to go self publishing or with a small press that doesn't require an agent, because I think that would be really interesting. Or. I spoke to an audiobook engineer, not engineer, an audiobook producer at Penguin Random House, who I had gotten in touch with through a mutual friend that I work with. And that was really fascinating because that's sort of a part of the industry that nobody really hears a lot about. You know, you hear advertisements for Audible, but you don't know. You never hear what goes into making a book at Audible kind of thing. So that was really fun to do. So. But for the most part, it's, it's me talking to authors about their books, how they're written, you know, the publishing process, that kind of thing.
Cool.
Yeah, it's a, it's a great show. You guys talked about. I think the big highlight for me was, was you talked to, you talked to somebody about the magic of tidying up.
Right. I spoke to Ann Kingman, who is the co host of the Books on the Nightstand podcast. And she's actually a sales rep. Her and her co host, Michael Kindness, are sales reps for Penguin Random House. And this was, it was a book that they had started talking about a couple years ago. Here and there they would mention it and I, I read it and I was like, oh, this is like life changing. It's a life changing magic of tidying up. It lives up to its name. And after I read it, I thought it might be kind of fun to have sort of a book club episode. So I invited her on to talk about the book with me, which we
blatantly copied from you when we did our, our stationary. What is it called?
Perfection of Paperclip.
Yeah, Perfection of the Paperclip episode.
Right. I listened to that episode and I. It's funny because someone, someone had mentioned it might have. I don't Remember who did it? But someone had mentioned, either in the group or maybe even on the podcast, about Elizabeth Gilbert's. Oh, no, it was Anna. Ana Reinert had mentioned Elizabeth Gilbert's Magic. I can't remember the name. It was the book about creativity and everything. Yeah, something like that. And I thought that might be kind of a fun crossover episode we might want to do.
Yeah, I've actually read half of that, picked it up from the library. It's. It's. It's like sort of weird because it's very light at one point, but it's also pretty inspiring. Still like it, but with being just kind of fun, which is a weird mixture. It's not like over the top. Like I thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to be. We can save this for, like, save this for the special episode. But I thought it was going to be kind of like a little hokey, but it wasn't. Yeah. Cool.
Anything else before we move on to Tim's fresh points, Harry?
No, I got nothing. Carry on.
Cool. No worries. Well, Tim.
Yeah, All I've got, and I have to admit that I'm kind of stealing this because I hadn't planned to do this one because I just didn't have much else to talk about over the last couple weeks. It's been really busy. But we are. We have to talk about the new field notes.
Yeah.
Which I want to say it's kind of bittersweet for me because my subscription, my first. My. My last year of subscription is up and I decided not to renew it. Start over. So I don't have this one yet. I don't know if I'll order it or not, but it's. It looks pretty amazing. It's called Snow Blind, which I'm sure most of you have seen it by now, especially if you're in the group, people posting pictures and information links and stuff like that to the video, which is, I think, safe to say, totally different than anything else they've done so far. The COVID is actually silk screened, which is a first for the colors editions. And the kind of gimmick, if you want to call it that, of this one is that it starts out white, looking a lot like northerly. And then when you take it out in the sunlight, the inks they use actually change to blue. Kind of supposed to imitate when you look straight up into the sky on, like a clear winter day, which blows my mind.
So it's kind of a crowd favorite too, I think, isn't it? Like, people have been Talking about trying to do something like this for a
while, which I'm really interested to see how they wear in, like over time. Yeah, like as the ink gets, you know, worn in from pocket sweat and stuff like that. Like, if it's gonna get kind of weird and start to look super ugly over time. But knowing that when we had Brian on, I mean, I think that, you know, he, he was talking about doing the pocket tests, you know, where they. He'd put in his pocket and just like around for a while. I'm sure it won't, but I'm just interested to see how it ages because that's one of my favorite things with, with field notes is to see how over time it gains character or maybe loses character like some of them. I think the, in some ways the cold horizon, which is pretty closely related to this one, lost kind of lost character as you wore it in.
Well, as a mole person who never goes outside, I know that it's never going to, it's never going to change blue.
Well, that was my problem with transition lenses is that I never go outside. And so they tell you, oh, after a while, the, the transition takes, you know, like two seconds. And no, it was like 45 minutes. I go inside, I'm blind, so. But is there a worry that with, you know, repeated exposure to the sun that the ink sort of stops doing its thing?
I don't know. I don't know if it's gotten to that point yet.
It's funny with the, the picture on the website, when you go to the, the actual explanation of the inks and stuff, there's this picture where there's like a hand on the notebook and it's holding fingers over and they pull the fingers away and the notebook has turned blue, but where the fingers were, it's still white because it wasn't exposed to the sun. And that was the first picture I saw when I saw the link. When I saw it, I thought that was like you could just sort of like rub your fingers against it and it would change colors.
It was hyper color is what you thought. Oh man.
Like just like heat sensitive, like you. Like the heat of your hand would change the color stuff.
Hyper color. Hyper color.
I do wonder. I kind of wonder the same thing. I think that's a good question whether it would, you know, after a few weeks just look sort of somewhere in between all the time. But yeah, I know for me, I don't. My notebooks are always in my field notes wallet, so I don't know if I'd Ever really get to enjoy it besides like being like a crazy person standing out in my lawn, like holding a notebook up in the air.
Oh, you should have seen me. So I recorded an unboxing video and I usually just do them at, you know, right at my desk and open the package and kind of feel them there. But I actually took my phone and a field notes and went outside. Nobody's walking by, but I have a pretty shady hallway where I like in my apartment complex and I had to go like reach out to get this little patch of sunlight so it actually fade color. So anybody looking out their windows would have seen some crazy person holding his phone to take a video of a notebook and narrating loudly to himself. Aaron Zeller in the chat mentioned that it's. It's similar to what some of us thought the Unexposed edition would be like.
Yeah, I remember that.
Which, yeah, I totally thought because the Unexposed edition came completely sealed in black, I thought it was going to be some. Some kind of like photosensitive paper. And I guess it's kind of like that. It's. I was expecting something a little bit more, you know, photo photography related rather than a color changing thing. But it also kind of feels like the unexposed. It's a little bit like. Oh, I don't. I don't know what the right word is, but like kind of like matte kind of not sticky but almost. But a little bit. A little bit matte.
Yeah.
I wonder what would happen if you applied sunscreen to the notebook. Like if you could somehow, you know, put a key on it.
Yeah.
For like a stencil. Put it in the sun and then take the key away and now it's permanent. That would be pretty cool. I'm gonna ruin my pack.
Somebody in the.
Cool.
Somebody in the group used light sensitive ink on it or. Oh, I don't. Do you remember what it was? Did you guys see that?
I didn't see that.
I can't remember if it was in our group or in the field. Nuts. But yeah, somebody put like invisible ink on it and it basically blocked the UV rays from getting to the COVID ink. So it was still invisible. But when it turned blue, that writing stayed white. It was kind of cool.
Yeah.
I wonder what happened if you microwaved it. I mean, obviously pick staples out.
Should try it. You should record it.
That's a great unboxing video.
Hey, I wonder how I can do it in a microwave.
Stay tuned for Johnny's new YouTube channel. Will it microwave?
Yeah. Open it With a blowtorch and then
put it in my open bottle of Perrier. Let's see.
All of a sudden, pencils go in there. Yes. Johnny, you should microwave it.
How conducive is graphite? It's not my microwave.
So, yeah, we'll have a link to the snowblind edition and my unboxing video in the group or in the show notes. Thank you, T.J. so much for helping me with that. He. He is my video editor for stuff like that, and he is amazing. He works super quickly, and he distributes it for me so he can, like, host the content on his channel, and I can just share it out when as needed. So, yeah. Tj, thank you so much. We have to have him as our next guest.
Yes. They forgot the time zone difference.
Yeah.
Do you guys want to just, like, get up at 4am and record an episode?
I do sometimes anyway.
Yeah. Think.
Was TJ the one who redesigned your logo?
Yeah.
And your cover. Yeah. I got to talk to him. I think Covered is in need of a logo that's kind of designed.
Yeah. Yeah, he's.
He's so great. Anything else, Tim?
That's all I got.
Awesome. Johnny? What. What sort of fresh points are you looking at?
Well, I hate to go out of order and complain like a privileged white guy, but, like, where are my freaking field notes?
You know what? Check your privilege.
Yeah. So.
You are a monster, sir.
Yeah, mine were lost in limbo. Now they've resurfaced. They're in Baltimore, but they're not coming anytime soon. They're giving them to the USPS.
Okay.
I mean, I trust the USPS more than I trust FedEx.
The feds.
That happened your last. Last set, too. I know you were moving, but I
think I'm on a list. They joked one time that if you. You know when they used to do that special where you get a free pack of the graph once. If you buy anything, even pencils. And they were joking, they're like, yeah, we keep a list of people that do that. I did it once. I've always wondered. But.
Yeah, but wouldn't that be a good thing?
Now they're like, you. Now you're gonna wait for your subscription?
Oh,
yeah.
Do I need a typewriter bell then? I don't actually know.
I don't know. You should just get it ready.
Just always have my typewriter bell on standard.
Yeah. So on a brighter note, I don't know if you guys. If your kids like to take in, you know, like, packs of holiday pencils from the Dollar Bin at Target for their classmates and stuff like that. But Target has some that don't suck. They're not bad for paper wrapped pencils.
My kids don't have opposable thumbs, so they cannot hold a pencil.
I'm tempted to pick up some of those Star wars pencils at Target. I saw those the other day.
Oh yeah, I got the packs.
Yeah, no, not the lightsaber ones. These are, I'm thinking of just like the wrapped ones that are in like the special section. I think I meant to pick some up. Then I got distracted chasing my son around the store. So
the ones made by Horizon Group aren't bad. They're pretty good. It was last year. The year before. Right. Dudes actually made them. It was in small print. Those were pretty sweet. I don't know where mine all went, but yeah. So if you want cheap pencils, there you go. So I got two new tattoos and I still have. Don't have a pencil tattoo. Although Charlotte was severely advocating for me to get a pencil tattoo. She lost.
We talked to Charlotte about it.
I was wondering. She came out of the blue. She suggested something really off the wall like a puppy. And like, yeah, I'm not gonna do that. And then she's like, how about a pencil? Hmm. Who have you been talking to? When I tried to explain to her my Sherman in Atlanta joke and she just stared at me.
I got your Sherman Atlanta joke.
Yeah. I was at Antietam this weekend and I was asking them if they had any Sherman postcards in the back. And they were like, you know, he has no significance here. I'm like, I know, but you know, I told him about the pen show and the pencil thing and this guy just totally stared at me like I was nuts. And he had a gun, so not so much. Also, I don't know is this the proper place to announce this, but we're having another baby. That explains why I'm brain dead.
So what is this? Five? Six?
I hope just three, maybe six. No twins running three and four? Oh God no. So my brothers and I have, you know, we all tease each other at family dinners. Like, who's gonna have the twins?
Not me.
Oh God, not me.
Yeah, hopefully not me.
Yeah. Well, congratulations. That's awesome.
Thank you.
Because you're gonna get a lot more tattoos if you have twins.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, we're getting the tattoo that references both the kids. The guy that was doing it was like, hey, don't have another kid. Hahaha.
Sure.
So Tim and I have a perfect name for Your kid.
What is that?
Do you want to share, tim?
Well, there's two options.
Mono 100.
There's. Yeah, there's a Andromothy.
Yep.
And of course, Tamandi.
Tamandi.
I like the sci fi sound of Andromathy.
Andromathy. It's very like Dune.
Okay.
Andromathy. Altrades. Gamber.
And you can just call him Rumo.
It's like an Elvis Costello. Like, what's it. What's this kid's name? Like, like somebody. Moon Base or something.
No, that's not. That's. Isn't that Zappa?
Oh, Frank Zappa. Yeah, that's who it is. That's who it is.
Moon Unit and Dweezil.
Dweezil. Yeah.
Yeah.
That's awesome. Congratulations.
This entails making room. So my famous archive, the, you know, 600 pound dresser of pencils is now being emptied. So I'm on, like night three. It's not empty yet. I really need to get rid of some pencils.
So how much maternity leave are you taking from the show?
We've been doing it for over a year, so 12 weeks. And you can't replace me.
Is that covered by your health insurance
through erasable or erasable health insurance?
Well, it's gonna be unpaid.
It's written in pencil. So
we haven't caught up with the whole dad thing yet.
Yeah. How are the kids taking it?
Are they.
I'm sure Charlotte comprehends it, but does Henry even, like, understand?
Charlotte's very excited. Henry said. I said, henry, do you want to have a little brother? And he looked at me and said, no. I said, well, how about a little sister? And he looked at me and said,
no,
I'll take care of the baby.
Poor middle kid.
Awesome.
So, yeah, that's all I've got.
You need to sign up for a pencil registry for your baby.
Yeah. Will CW Pencils register for you?
That's a great idea.
It could be the first pencil registry ever.
That'd be so great.
I have to name the kid Eberhard.
Oh, man. Yes. Maybe you can get. Maybe you can get CW Pencils to, like, sponsor your childhood.
Eberhard Faber Gamber.
There you go.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's easy to get a lot of stuff in yellow for kids these days.
It's true.
Oh, man. We'll talk about this offline, twiddling my thumbs like Mr. Burns. But you can't see it.
Topher in the chat says, I say, if it's a girl, it should be called Kimberly. If it's a boy, Swiss but the
Swisswood is a piece of crap.
Karen Dash Gamber.
Yeah, Karen Fight word. Karen Dash Gamber. Woohoo.
Awesome.
Any other fresh points, Johnny?
No. My continued lack of sleep will render me no more comprehensible.
I.
It's really hard for me to follow that up. I have no baby news. I did however, realize today that today is my one year californiversary.
Congratulations.
I moved out here one year ago today to. To start my California life.
So.
Man, it seems longer.
I know, it's. It still feels really.
What's. What. Yeah, what's the gift for a one year CaliforniaVersary? Is it a Prius?
It's. No water.
No water. Okay.
Yeah, that's my. That's my everyday gift. No, it's. It's. It's one hour. One hour standing in line for brunch, I believe is what it is.
I thought that was the portlandversary.
Portland is. Yeah. Just starting a village. No, it's. Yeah, I've been out for a year. I. It's amazing actually. Since I moved out here, I've been able to travel a little bit more and it's connected me to meeting a lot of you in person. So I met Harry a couple of times. I met Johnny once. Aaron Figg, guys. Caroline Weaver. Yeah, I'm still waiting for you, Tim.
Why haven't you flown to the bustling metropolis of Johnson City, Tennessee? Why isn't Facebook sending you here?
I don't understand. I'll actually this Christmas be in Indiana, which is way closer to Tennessee than any of the rest of you, so. That's true. Hey, maybe we should do a half a.
Picked him up in my car.
Yeah, in your minivan.
It's a micro van.
Oh, I'm sorry. So, yeah, I'm.
It's.
It's awesome. I'm. I can't believe it's been a year. I just. That also has nothing to do with pencils necessarily, but I just thought I'd mention it. Something to do with what we generally talk about. Just today, super timely for Cyber Monday, Baron Fig released the Guardian, which is a cover for their confidant. I actually got to see it, see a couple prototypes of it when I was in New York and then also when they were out in San Francisco. It's really nice. It's a little bit softer and more pliable than the stuff sheaths. When the stuff sheets come, they. They're almost like some sort of a thick cardboard they. They wear in and get softer a little bit easier. But these Baron Fig Guardians start off a little bit better. But I don't know if. Do you guys use Coffinats with any regularity?
I do, I did, but I haven't in a while.
No, I do most of my stuff. Midori.
Yeah.
And then I use a story supply as like a fiction outlining jotting notebook.
That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. One thing I've noticed with the fabric covered cover, the fabric covered cover of the confidant is that it even water will stain it. It's kind of like a silk shirt or you know, or like a canvas jacket or something like that. So my confidant, which I use pretty heavily, gets stained on the COVID and then this would, this would prevent that. It also adds some bulk to it. And also like I like the COVID I like having a little patina I guess on the COVID a little bit of wear. It just like looks nice after a while. And also it's $85, which is not. Which is not unreasonable. There's a lot of like leather covers that cost way more than that. But still probably something I wouldn't necessarily just buy on my own. I have a stuff stuff sheath only which is about the same price but only because it was given to me.
Yeah.
So yeah, the, the confidant covers, we'll have a link to that in show notes. It's called the Guardian. There's no pen loop for the. For the Baron fig pen yet or pencil loop. But did you guys see this is kind of a ad hoc. Fresh points. But somebody in the erase no in the field nuts group I think posted a Kickstarter for basically a little stick on pen loop like that Leuchtturm1. Did you guys see that?
Oh yeah, I did not.
Huh. Pretty cool.
Out of the loop on Facebook.
Yeah. You must use Facebook more. No, no. Yeah, it looks very much like the, the Leuchtturm pen loop that just kind of sticks on but it like has some subtle differences and it. I think it's being kickstarted. So yeah, I'll link to that. It looks nice. It doesn't look much different than what you can already get, but it's nice that there's more out there. The last thing I thought I would mention is for those of you not in the group who are a little bit out of the loop, Blackwing on Instagram has been teasing their next volumes edition. A few days ago they posted basically the volumes logo with four blank spaces saying that they're teasing the next four volumes. So apparent. Apparently it's going to be a.
That Narrows it down.
Yeah. We can go from 1000 to 9999, but no, it's. It's going to be four digits.
0, 0, 00.
Or that they really just want to screw with us.
Isn't the first digit one.
Yes. So I was going to say that. Yes. Today they. They teased that it starts with a one. And I'm kind of like, okay, guys, let's not drag this out.
Yeah.
I really hope that, like, all of
them, it's gonna come out like.
Yeah, I really have been hoping that they're going to ship before I leave for Indiana for Christmas, which happens in two weeks from Wednesday. But, yeah, I. It's gonna start with a one. I think everybody's guessing like some sort of a 19, like a. Like a year number.
I like Tim's guess with the purple eraser.
Yeah.
What was Your guest name?
1999.
Yeah.
As in party. Like, it's.
As in Prince. Yeah.
I still think it's been 1979 here. I was born, obviously.
I'm. I'm hoping that. I'm hoping that it's going to be. Somebody mentioned something to do with Star Wars. I think that would be really cool. Somebody else mentioned something to do with.
That would be. What did they say, their style to kind of like jump on the train of Charlie Brown?
Yeah, yeah. Charlie Brown. Yeah. So 1950 something.
Oh, yeah.
That'd be cool. Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm getting tired of everything Star Wars. It's becoming like pumpkin spice. There's actually Star wars coffee made that I saw at the store.
Are you serious? Yeah, it tastes like Wookie.
Yeah. There's a Wookiee one that's a spiced latte, which I guess is supposed to smell like brown hair. There's one with droid or Yoda or something like. Oh, my God. No, no, no.
What do you think? Tastes like Wookiee. Show title.
Show title.
Tastes like Wookiee.
Han Solo. Really old latte frappuccino.
It's just all milk.
Yeah.
By the way, Millennium Falcon a chino.
Those of you in the chat, if you want to suggest. Suggest show titles as we go along, please do. I. That's something that they do on, like, relay of the 5x5, like, live streams, and it's pretty great. So feel free to. Feel free to do that. And if not, that's fine too. No. So that'll be. That'll be interesting to see. I'm kind of like. Like, I'm already like, oh, yeah. Like, I have. I'm using my 211. But it sounds really stupid to be like, oh yeah, I'm using my 1978 or whatever.
It would be funny if it was like something like they. They decide which this wouldn't work because they. The price went up. But if it was just 1999. But that was just the price. They're like, that's just how much it is mundane like that's how much that's worse than those.
What were you guys thinking? Real time follow up. It looks like in the chat I misspoke. The stuff sheet is $40 instead of $80.
No, I've got it.
Thanks to. Thanks to Michael Metz, who is that guy. Good job, Michael.
I have. If this isn't what the plan is for the new. The new volumes edition. And this is what they need to change it to.
Yeah, stop the presses, guys.
Yeah. Yeah. If it's instead of doing a Star wars edition, they need to do a Spaceballs edition. And yes. 1, 2, 3, 4.
That's the kind of number the idiot would have on their luggage.
What's your combination? 1, 1.
1.
2, 2, 3, 3, 4. 4.
Spaceballs edition.
I'm surrounded by assholes decided merchandising.
Spaceballs. The pencil Merchandising. Johnny goes. I see your pencil is as big as mine.
All right.
To sharpen it like right there on the spot.
So, Racer Luke. So I think we're. We're good with fresh points. Should we jump into the main topic? Do we need a short break first or are we good with that?
I am all good.
Okay. Anybody cool? So let's jump into the main topic. And we don't have like a super, super set. One for today only. Only to converse and talk to Harry and talk about his pencil story. But one thing we will be talking about is our favorite. Our favorite pencils for long form writing. And maybe I was thinking we could kind of like go through shortly and explain why we like to use what we use for long form writing. Or somebody. Was that you, Johnny? Who calls them long, long haul pencils or is that you? Yeah, yeah. Lhps.
I'm the king of acronyms.
You are.
Or the KOA Yeah, it was an army brat.
So we had Harry going first, but I actually want Harry to go last because he's the one we're talking to a little bit more about this. So Tim, what are your favorite long haul pencils?
Well, I've got. I try to keep it as limited as possible. You know, that was the whole reason why I bought the Palomino hp. Is that Those are my favorite to use over long periods of times time. But I had kind of a similar experience or realization to what Harry was talking about with the 602 is that the. If you actually do write really softly, that it does kind of work wonders, so to speak. Like you can kind of write forever. And it's of course, very smooth. If I want a little more feel to what I'm doing, like, you know, sometimes you. You don't want it to just kind of glide. You want it to be more of like a tactile experience. Then I go with the forest choice. But it's usually one. One of those three, which are all. All palomino. I try not to. Once I get into mixing it up with too many different things, then I. I get confused and my brain hurts and then I just like stop writing. So I try to prevent that as much as possible. The probably an honorable mention if I was going to give a fourth would be the general's test scoring 580. Yeah, love, love, love that one for. For long term, because that's. It's so smooth. It's one that if you're kind of in the mood to sharpen quite a bit, then that's a good one to use. But 90% of the time, I go with the Palomino. HP. Yeah.
Take a drink. Johnny, how about you?
Well, for point retention.
Wait, wait, real quick. Were you done?
Tim?
I'm sorry.
Mm.
Okay. Sorry.
I'm gonna railroad you, baby.
Go on, Johnny.
So I like the Castell 9000 NB for point retention because you can write on cement with that thing and it won't get dull. But you know, the HP is a little too much like writing with a nail for sweaty hand days. I like General Cedar Point HP because I'm a sweaty man. And for cheapness and availability, the Chinese Ticonderoga.
Hmm.
Because you just get a fistful of them.
Yeah, I tried that. Castell 9000. And even in B, it's too hard for me. I feel like I'm writing with one of my teeth. Like when I use that.
You have smooth teeth.
It feels like. It's like maybe I'm just using the wrong sharpener or something, but I just didn't.
What was that noise?
Make me an episode title.
That's me tearing through the pencils or tearing through the paper.
I'd like to. I'd like to go back to what Johnny said. I'm just curious. Why. Why are you such a sweaty man?
I'm very woolly once.
Once he gets all of. Once he gets all the tattoos and becomes the true illustrated man, then no more body hair, because he'll have to shave it all off for the tattoos, and then he won't be as well.
But I was gonna make an Illustrated man reference on his Instagram, but I was like, well, I don't want to be that guy.
I don't know what it is.
It's a Bradbury.
Yeah. Ray Barberry short story. Or really? It's like. It's a collection. Yeah. It's like a story woven around other short stories. It's really good. No. Harry, do you follow Johnny on Instagram?
I believe I do, yeah. Pen solution.
Right.
When he got his latest tattoo, they shaved, like, his wrist all around because they tattooed above and below it.
Right.
He left one inch.
Yeah. And. And it sort of looked like he was wearing, like, a reverse watch.
Yeah. It's really, really uncomfortable, and it looks disgusting.
How does the hair grow back in that spot?
It goes in thicker, so you just can't even see the texture.
It takes a while if it's. If you're hairy enough. He really shows.
He doesn't wear a watch. He just wears, like, Just keep watching Velcro.
Just. Just keep going. So you're totally aerodynamic.
He doesn't even have to, like, loop his watch around his wrist. He can just, like, lay it across his wrist and hair just holds it in place.
Just put some Velcro on the back of that puppy. Oh, gross, you guys. How did we get this happen?
Sorry. All right, the last two episodes have been Pick on Johnny. So sorry, Johnny.
Let's talk about Johnny's disgusting hair.
Let me tell you, I'm very jealous, actually, that Johnny has two tattoos, because my wife is not a fan. My wife is not a fan of tattoos. You have four tattoos. I hate you so much. My wife is not a fan of tattoos, but my mom got a tattoo of my son's name on her wrist. So let the record stand that my mom is actually cooler than me.
Well, clearly your wife is just holding you back.
Well, sure.
Yeah.
Harry, if you can get away and come to Atlanta for the. The pen show, you can get a tattoo with the three of us.
Nice.
I'll be there.
We should. We should have that. An open invitation. Like, anybody who wants this limited edition erasable tattoo has to come with us to the tattoo parlor.
You have to come to Atlanta, and you have to pay for it. But we will design it for you,
and we will let you use it. We're gonna copyright it.
Whoever gets there first gets to shave my arm.
Wow. I'm just, I'm. I'm just like chomping at the bit there.
Yeah. Please give us your name and email address to see if you can Nair Johnny's arm Before the God.
There's a Patreon reward no one wants.
Rejected Patreon rewards attempt to shave Johnny's arm. All right, getting back on topic. I would say if I were to pick three long haul pencils, I wish I had just sort of like a grail long haul pencil, a GLHB if you will. But I sort of like different pencils for different things. Golden Bear because just golden bear is like my default for everything. But really like, it writes really well. It has really good general point retention. It's fairly comfortable. Especially the triangular one which as I've talked about many times, just don't, just don't start made right now.
That is a good long term pencil. I think, I think when I was talking about the forest choice and being able to just feel it a little bit more, I think that one might even be better than the forest choice. That's a good, that's a good.
Yeah, yeah. The. Yeah, that's good. I like the triangular pencils for comfort, but if you're long hauling it, you know you want to do a slight turn every now and then and you can't slightly turn a. A triangular pencil. I guess you can only turn it. What is that? 120 degrees each time. So yeah, Golden Bear. I had a Test scoring 100 on there, but only for the point retention because I think it has amazing point retention. It is not a comfortable pencil. Your fingers are going to hurt if you use a test scoring Musgrave test scoring 100 too long. So maybe that um, maybe the general's test scoring would be, would be a better choice. I just haven't used that very much.
Um, it's always a better choice.
And then it's just so weird. I just love the way it looks. It's so weird looking. And then also if you want. But if you want comfort. I really like the general semi hex.
Oh yeah.
It's something we don't talk about a lot. It kind of like falls through the cracks.
It's true.
But have you, Harry, have you ever used a general semi hex pencil?
I don't believe so, no.
Yeah, it's, it's a semi hex because it's somewhere between a hex and a round pencil. It has very rounded corners.
Oh, okay.
So it kind of doesn't Fall off the desk. Sometimes it does, though. But also it's. It's just a little bit softer than something that has very sharp edges, like a desk scoring.
No, I have two test scorings on my desk. One is. One has been sharpened, the other one has not. But I haven't used the semi hex.
Okay.
It's like you go into Adobe Illustrator and you draw a hexagon and you round the corners to about 10 points for those graphic design nerds out there. Silence. Silence. So, yeah, so I guess that leads us to Harry. I would like to know, kind of like your journey for writing in pencil, long form, and where you started, where you ended up, and kind of maybe your rationale along the way.
So, okay, so I started writing fiction. You know, seriously writing fiction. I'd say three, four years ago or so. You know, my first novel, I write primarily, the novel always ends up in Scrivener as a final place. The first one I wrote entirely in Scrivener. The second one was the one that I had said, I'm gonna hand write this to see how it goes. And what I did was I wrote most of it with a pilot high tech C, because my first real foray into stationery and pens and pencils of any kind was through the Penatic podcast. And I had heard them talk about it. Although from what I understand in a recent episode, Brad isn't the biggest fan of the hi Tech C. But it had been recommended to me by a couple of people because it's. You can get a really fine point, so you can get a lot of words on the page and it dries almost instantly. So I. Absolutely, yeah, I. I love that pen. And since I work. I work in Manhattan, so I'm actually not too far from Kinokuniya, the. The Japanese bookstore. So you can buy them in bulk there. I mean, you can, you know, go downstairs and just buy a whole handful of them, which is what I ended up doing.
But what colors?
Black, mostly. And then I got a red one for edits, but it's mostly black. And I think I used about one and a half pens to go through the whole book. So I wrote the whole thing in a one of those really large size, like the. The A4 size Moleskine notebooks. The. With the soft cover. Yeah, this is before I got into what kind of paper is good or better than other papers. So. But I tell you, the high tech C can write on anything and dries almost instantly. So the paper, to me didn't really make a difference. The Moleskine handled it like a champ. And I like having a lot of room to write on. So that's how I got started. And then I was sort of dabbling in pencils in the middle of the book. And I had tried the 602, I tried the regular Blackwing, a couple of others, and there just wasn't anything I really liked. You know, part of it was the, the way I had handled the pencil. Too much pressure, too little pressure, and just, you know, having to constantly sharpen it. There's a great documentary about Stephen Sondheim where he talks about his love for the black wings. And part of the reason he loves them is that he has to sharpen them every couple of minutes. And that's something that just really turned me off about pencils at the time. But then as time went on, I was, you know, using pencils more in my daily life for to do lists and jotting notes down in meetings and stuff. I was like, no, this is, this is what I really want to be using. It's, it seems a lot less maintenance. It's a lot easier to just jump into. I don't have to ink it up. I don't have to worry if I'm storing it properly or at the right temperature. I mean, it's, you know, it's like you're storing plutonium with some of these pens.
So.
So I decided to start using pencils more often. So I've written 3.9 novels. The one I'm working on now is almost done. I'm 2,000 words away from 90,000 words, so I'm very excited. And this one I've written sort of a little bit by hand, but mostly on the computer. I have a 16 month old, and so I can't use the typewriter I have the way I want. And I don't have a whole lot of time to write by hand. It takes more effort than I have.
Plus, you don't want to be a dirty hipster and write with your typewriter.
No, especially since I do my writing in a Starbucks and I don't want to be that guy. So, yeah, that's really where I am now. So I've been using the Cedar point number one and the. It's funny you mentioned the Golden Bear because that was one of the first ones I use that I really liked for long form writing. And the, the 602 has now become my, my go to. I bought a box from CW Pencils a couple of weeks ago, so that's been sitting on my desk Waiting to be used. I've still got one that I'm using
that's, it's an interesting journey because I know that you've, you've kind of taken us on your journey in the, in the erasable group, but I know that a lot of people have had a lot of recommendations. How did you kind of like sift through and try it all out? Did you try all of those recommendations or were you, were you pretty, like pretty focused on what you were doing?
I had. So I know Tim and I believe Johnny and you, I think all three of you actually were kind enough to send me like sampler packs. I don't know, was it Johnny or Will Fangy and I'm sorry, I can't remember. It's been so long.
Yeah, yeah, we'll send you one too.
We carpet bombed you with pencils.
Yeah, you really did. It just got to a point where I was like drowning in pencil. So I had all of these different pencils to try out and it was, it was overwhelming. But I, I knew pretty quickly because I had actually, I had handwritten a sort of mini review of each one that I had gotten in a, in a sampler pack. And by doing that I was able to figure out which ones I felt good and felt like they would work well for, for my long form writing.
So kind of take us through. When you are writing with your pencil, how you do it? Do you, do you?
I hold it in my hand. Oh, okay.
Is that how you, that's not how
I use a pencil with the graphite.
You know, I, I, someone had recommended to me sharpening a couple at a time and having them on the desk ready to go. And that's one thing I've started doing. So I have the 602 sharpened and the, the cedar point and the golden bear and I sort of switch off, you know, as one dolls, I'll jump to the next one and then once all three have gotten to a certain point, I'll sharpen them all up again. But yeah, I don't, there's no real science to the way I do it. I just, you know, I've got to get the words on the page. That's the big thing.
Yeah, well that's the one thing we, we can't help people with here on the podcast, but we can help them with their, their technique.
Yeah, it's Toffer in the chat had mentioned or had asked, oh, you writing a Starbucks. And yeah, cuz you know, in midtown Manhattan the only things open at 7am or 6am are Starbucks and your local coffee shop. So by me, there's a nice Starbucks that's open at 6:00am actually the, the Barnes and Noble by me is open at 7am so sometimes I'll go in there if I, if I catch a late train and I'll write. You know, it's quiet, there's not a whole lot going on. I work in a very business oriented part of the city, so the, you know, I don't have to worry about tourists or anything. So it's nice and quiet and I can write for a couple of hours before work starts.
Yeah.
What, how long, how long at a time are you, are you writing just like straight up writing with a pencil? What period of time?
It's tough because the, I mean it's easier with the 602 because, you know, as it says you can use half the pressure and twice the speed. So I can write for a little longer with the 602 with the other ones. It's a lot of starting and stopping, especially with the sharpening, you know that that takes time away from words on the page. But I do try to get at least an hour to an hour and a half of each morning in getting words down.
Yeah, so, so do you go into the office just with your like fingers clenched in some sort of like a pencil cramp or how do you.
No. Actually use it hurt? Using the pencil is a lot more comfortable than typing. The, the typing for me has gotten to a point where I almost need to wear like a carpal tunnel brace on my wrist because it's just my posture is terrible and I'm in front of a computer all day. I find using a pencil and writing in a notebook just, it's heaven compared to sitting in front of a screen all day.
So that was one thing I just wanted to talk about is that I know you say that sometimes you use computer, sometimes you don't, but we've talked about it several times on the podcast. Just why, why you write by hand. Like what's like your rationale behind it and like what do you enjoy about it? What do you, what's your reason for doing it? Because, I mean, I'm kind of, I mean I'm in the same boat. And I think Johnny, I guess could count himself in the same boat as far as if wanting to get writing done when you have young kids that, you know, writing when you have young kids, time like that, your sense of time and like when you can spend on. It's very limited. So how do you, like, how do you think about that.
So just to give you an idea of my. My day to day, I live in New Jersey, but I work in New York. And my day starts at 4:40 in the morning. And I'm up and I am showered and I'm on a train by 5. What is my train? 5:12. So I am in the city by 6 in the morning, and then I'm in my section of the city by like 6:15, 6:30. So my day starts very early. And you know, part of the reason is parking. Where I park in that parking garage, you know, by 8 o' clock it fills up and you can't get a spot. So that's part of the reason. And then the other part of the reason is I need to write. If I don't have that time to write in the morning, I don't write because my day is taken up with the 9 to 5 job. And then I come home and I'm with my family for the evening. So that's, that's a big motivation to get the writing done at that time of the day. And as for why I like using a pencil or a pen, it's become a cliche now, especially if you follow like guy in your MFA on Twitter, but it's, it really does allow you to slow down. I, I find when I write on, you know, if I'm writing directly in Scrivener, my brain isn't moving as fast as my fingers or vice versa. So I feel like the words I'm putting down aren't as thoughtful as they might be if I'm using something more analog. It's why I like the typewriter. I like the, the sound of the clicking and clacking. I find it, yeah, I find it very therapeutic. And I like to be able to slow down and choose my words carefully. There's a permanence there. And I mean, yes, there's an eraser at the top of the pencil, but, you know, you're, you're committing a word to a page in a very permanent fashion. You know, you're manually putting it there. And I think there's something both romantic and very just psychosomatic about it. It's, it's, there's something tangible about putting a word physically on a page that I really enjoy.
Well, I'm very, very linear as well. Like, you can't just like delete or go insert a paragraph or something like that.
Right? Exactly.
Yeah.
It's, you're, you're stuck. You know, what you write is on the page now. And there's not really much you can do about it and. Exactly. If I come up, if I'm writing something and I think, oh no, I have to go back and fill something in or I have to move something around, it's not cut and paste, you know, I can make a note for it later. But you know, it forces you to think out and plot out. It's part of the reason I've become more of an outliner these days is I used to quote pants, my novel right by the seat of my pants, which resulted in a lot of going back and filling in gaps that I hadn't thought of before and writing by hand and outlining more. I outline by hand like crazy usually before I write a chapter. And it makes it a lot easier to just sort of let the words flow and not have to worry about what's coming next.
Yeah. What are some of your favorite, your favorite sharpeners for? Well, even just in general, but specifically for writing longhand.
I'm a big fan of a long point for the point retention. So I picked up a kum long point. It's the red one. I don't know, it's a two step sharpener and that's been really, really awesome. You spoiled me, you jerk. You let me sharpen using your masterpiece and now all I want is a masterpiece sharpener.
Somebody needs to. I think somebody's trying to put together another, like another mass buy.
So.
So kind of amazing. They're not here yet.
Yeah, I don't get it. I. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot I don't understand. I don't know if it's the Germans just holding out on us or. Or what? Yeah, we gotta get you one of those. How about erasers?
Do you.
Do you tend to use the one on the end of your pencil or do you use a separate one or do you erase?
It? Depends. I mean, if the pencil I'm using, like I have a Palomino HB that doesn't have an eraser, it's got that black lacquer top. Then I'll just cross it out and keep going. I don't carry a separate eraser with me. With the 602, I use the one at the top of the pencil. If a pencil has an eraser, I'll use it, but I don't carry a separate one with me.
What else do you use pencils for? List making.
You said outlining drumsticks.
Coffee stirrer in time of crisis.
Exactly. Coffee stirrer. Stabbing fellow commuters on the train.
That's a good one.
That one comes in handy. Exactly. Mostly during the day job, it's all list making to do's. You know, I try not to use my outlook as a to do list, so I try to get that all onto paper. And then for fiction, it's a combination of outlining and writing the actual words. And I find the hardest thing to do is not choosing what pencil you want to use, but what notebook you would like to put the words in. And so I've been outlining in the story supply notebook and I try to write in something a little larger just because I like to get a lot of words on the page at once.
Yeah, well, so if.
Can we dig like deeper down the nerd hole and ask what you carry your stuff in?
I, I have a Johnston and Murphy leather messenger bag that was a graduation gift from my parents from college. And I have, within that bag I have the. It's one of those bag in a bag organizers. I picked it up on jetpens. It's the gray one with a whole bunch of pockets for stuff. It's the. It. It holds a 13 inch MacBook Air. To give you an idea of how big it is, it basically looks like a laptop sleeve, but it has pockets on the front for. It holds my Midori traveler's notebook, a whole bunch of pens, my story supply notebook, pencils. So, yeah, that's pretty much what I, I carry with me every day. And then in the back pocket of my messenger bag, I always have a paperback or a hardcover. Oh, I don't use a Kindle or a Nook. I, I try to read exclusively on paper.
I. Yeah, I wish I could do that. But I, I tend to read maybe like two or three things at the same time, sort of like going back and forth between them. And when I, when I'm like air traveling, it's so much handier just to read a Kindle. But I understand that. Yeah, that's.
No, I totally get that. And I. There are days where I feel. So when I lived in an apartment, I, I had a nook, and I adored the nook, and I still love the nook, although the battery has exploded. So I don't, I don't know what's going on with that. Like, it's really puffy and had I not taken it out of the thing, it might have exploded in my hand. But you know, as a space saving mechanism, it's fantastic. But when we moved into a house, I was like, wow, look at all this space. I can fill it with books. And. Which is exactly what I did in my office. Now I've run out of bookshelves. I have books on books on books. And, you know, I. For example, I carried the book A Little Life by Hanya yanagihara. It's about 700 pages. I carried that all through the city with me in my messenger bag. And it's heavy and it's a workout, but I absolutely loved reading it. And same with the Goldfinch. I read the hardcover and carried that with me. You know, I'm about to start Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace, which is over a thousand pages. That one I might leave at the house and only read at home because I don't really want to lug that around.
What you have to do is come out to San Francisco, sit on the bus and read Naked Lunch. It seems like that's what everybody does.
Yeah, that seems about right.
You don't have to carry it. You can just read over people's shoulders. Just collect all the pages as he
goes like, hey, can you turn to page 140 pages?
Yeah. I can't read audiobooks because my mind wanders.
I'm such a visual learner that I can't do that. It's actually ironic that I really like recording podcasts, but it's really hard for me to retain stuff aurally, so I have to read it or see it.
I listen to a ton of audiobooks.
I envy people who can sit and listen to an audiobook, like on a long car ride or something, because I'll get five minutes in and then I'll start to wonder. I'll start to wonder about my own novel or I'll wonder, did I leave the stove on? Or, you know, what's so and so doing now? And I just. I can't focus on what's being said. It's why. It's why I like podcasts, because I usually listen to them at like 1.8 times speed, and it's always something new. It's a new voice every time. So it's easy for me to stay with it. But if I have to listen to the same narrator for nine hours, I'm going to tune out
the only audiobook I ever like, truly finished. This is the geekiest thing ever. I listened to a Star Trek novel audiobook, and it was. It was narrated by Marina Sirtis, who plays Deanna Troi. And she started. She tried to do, like, the voices of the other characters. Like, she had, like, a deep growl for Worf, and she had, like, her like, studious Captain Picard voice. And it was just, like, so strangely fascinating. I just couldn't, like, I couldn't turn away.
No, you need to have Brent Spiner read those books and then have him do the Picard voice because he does it impeccably.
So good.
Yeah.
Anybody in the, in the chat have any questions for Harry on. On his process and his pencil story? His pencil story itself, I guess. Well, while people are thinking of things to put there, actually, I want to know a little bit about just like your history with. With pens and fountain pens. You know, you really like the, the high tech. I know Brad is really into the. Oh, is the pilot. Is it the G4? Is that what he likes?
The G2, I think.
G2, yeah.
Yeah, I've tried the G2. I like the G2. That was sort of. I first started out with, you know, whatever was available at Staples, really. It's, you know, the G2. There's. There's one I use that I really like. Also a. A disposable. It's the. What is it? The. The Uniball Signo 207. The X models have sort of their mix of blue, black, or red black. They're really nice. And then from there, when I started listening. When I started listening to the. The Penatic podcast, I was. I dived a little deeper into, you know, down the rabbit hole. And so I tried a Pilot Metropolitan, which I really love. I tell you, for $15, that is a fantastic pen. For any price, that is a fantastic pen. But if you're going to start in. In the fountain pen world, definitely start with the pilot Metropolitan. I tried that at a medium nib and a fine nib, and I'm more of a fine nib person. But then from there I went. So I was. I was lucky enough. Brad was kind enough to send some ink samples, and with it, he sent a Kaweco Sport and some cartridges that he had lying around. So I got to try that one as well. That was really nice. And then from there, I tried the. The diamine oxblood ink, which is a really nice, rich red ink, which, if you spill it on your hands, looks like you've cut yourself pretty deeply. And then the autumn. What is it? It's like autumn oak or something. It's a nice fall orange color I got into. And I also picked up a Lamy All Star fountain pen, which has been really, really nice, and a copper orange. It looks like the General Lee from Dukes of Hazzard.
So.
So we took three. I'm Sorry, where you continue?
Oh, no, I'm looking in the chat and it looks like Wendy Lou has asked Harry, have you ever used Atramentis graphite ink? I have not. I haven't even heard of that. And I'm curious to know what that is.
I'll look it up and post the link in. Show notes. Topher asked a little bit, a little bit up in the chat, how do you edit? How do you. What's your process?
Oh, the editing's fun. That's where the real writing begins. Because for me, the first draft is get it out of my head and onto whatever. And then from there I. So as I said, everything ends up in Scrivener. So the first draft for the one I hand wrote, the first draft was on paper. The second draft ended up in Scrivener. And then with that one, I edited as I transcribed the pages by hand into Scrivener. I didn't do ocr. I didn't scan them. I literally transcribed, page by page, word by word, the novel into Scrivener. And in doing that, I liked that method because I was able to read, to go back and reread my writing and then get it into, you know, edit it as I went along, like, oh, I didn't like that sentence I wrote. In fact, I didn't like any of these sentences I wrote, which is usually my process. I hate all of this. It's all terrible. Throw it out.
But it's like the, the Hemingway method, right? He would hand write and then his first round of editing was the transcription. He would fix things as he went.
Yeah, pretty much.
There's like.
Yeah, there was that, that HBO TV movie, Hemingway and Gellhorn. And there's a scene where they're in a hotel in the middle of the Spanish Civil War and he's writing on a typewriter and he basically finishes a page, pulls it out of the typewriter, crumples it and throws it away. And that's, that's essentially how I write. You know, you throw out half of the stuff you write, but that's. That was how that one worked. And then with the new one, I'm writing because of my limited availability, I've been writing it directly in Scrivener. And so what I'll do there is I will print it out and then go through it with a red. Now with a red pencil I actually picked up from Caroline A. Does this. This is a. It's a red color. It's a Mitsubishi red colored pencil that I'm going to use for edits. So I'll print it out and I'll write in the margins and I'll cross things out and then from there I'll transcribe those edits back into Scrivener.
That's awesome. Last question that we'll take from the room, Michael Metz asks, maybe this is just basic, but what do you do to push through and finish a piece of writing? Are there certain habits you had to get into?
Yes, one habit. And it's something I see my fellow writers struggle with on Twitter. I only try to work on one project at a time. I know some people try to do like they've got, they've got their own self imposed deadlines, they've got publisher deadlines. And so they're working on, you know, a sequel to one book and then a brand new book they're working on. I'm in a fortunate position where I am yet unpublished. So I try to work on one thing at a time. Trust me, I'm working on remedying that as fast as possible. But I, I do try to, you know, if I'm working on a novel, I'm working on a novel and I don't work on anything else until that novel is done. I'll write ideas down so that I can go back later and, and pick through and see what might be good for a short story or the next book. But for the most part, I, I do stick to one project at a time and then other habits. I write every morning. You know, that time is valuable to me. I don't get it. I don't write on the weekends. I never get the chance to. So when I get a chance to write first thing in the morning, I take it. And it takes a lot to break that for me. So that's, that's another thing I do to push through. And also you're going to plateau. You know, I hit 50,000 words in a book and I'm like, oh my God, there's another, you know, 30 to 50,000 more to go. You just have to push through it. Scrivener has been a huge savior for me in that regard. They'll, you know, you tell them I want to finish this book by X date. And it'll say, all right, you got to get, you know, 1200 words done today, or you have to get 800 words done today.
We will administer an electrical shock until
you pretty much, yeah, there are like services you can use that will, if you stop writing for more than five seconds, it'll delete everything you've written that is a really masochistic way to go about doing it. And it's not how I function. But for some people it works. But you know, I need that regimented routine because otherwise I will slack off and I'll go watch Jessica Jones on Netflix or something for three hours. So,
so yeah, tell us if, if you will, some of the projects you worked on and like in your writing and also what your, you know, what's going on on your podcast.
So my writing stuff has been varied. When I first started, I wrote something that by all marketable standards would be considered new adult. And by my standards was a heartbreaking work of ego stroking, hackery, and so that will sit in a drawer for the rest of my life. The second book was also considered. And for the unfamiliar new adult is fiction for people aged like 18 to 25ish. It's just, it's, it's really just a marketing term and it's, it's really flourishing with people who self publish. It's, it's, you know, for people between young adult and adult fiction who are looking for something about like college relationships and stuff. The third book was more literary fiction, more of a focus on the prose and not so much like a fast moving plot or anything like that. And then this new book is just complete, completely straight literary fiction with a. It's the one I'm most proud of. Something. One thing I'll tell you, if you're gonna write, write as much as you can. You don't have to write every day, but do try to write as much as you can because you will see an amazing difference in, in the work you do. You know, I look back at that first novel and I'm like, this was a chimpanzee on a typewriter. And I look at the novel I'm writing now and it's. I hate everything I write, but I can objectively say this book I wrote now is just light years ahead of what I had first done.
Who are some of your favorite authors, some of your influential authors?
For me, Lawrence Block, funny enough, he's a, he's a very, very prolific crime writer, you know, in the vein of like an Elmore Leonard or Donald Westlake.
Very big Westlake.
Yeah, yeah, like pulp, you know, he's got a bunch of different characters. Actually, that Liam Neeson movie from last year, A Walk among the Tombstones, was based on a book he wrote, a series he, he has with a character called Matt Scudder. And it was, from what I understand, like the first movie to really do that character justice, which was really good. And he and I have spoken a couple times on Twitter, which is really nice. But he was the one who really inspired me to, to pursue it more seriously than I had before. I'm also a huge fan of Gillian Flynn, the author of Gone Girl. Gone Girl just floored me. When people talk about literary fiction, they tend not to talk about genres. So you don't hear a lot about like literary science fiction or literary thrillers. But she had written what is by all means a literary thriller. Just. Yeah, unbelievable focus on prose as well as a fast moving plot and story. I just, I, I was beside myself after I finished her book, trying to think who else who I read.
I think there's some literary science fiction, I think.
Oh absolutely.
Ursula Le Guin.
Ursula Le Guin. Margaret Atwood. Yeah, you know, there's definitely a lot of literary science fiction. Ray Bradbury.
Yeah.
So those two. Hemingway, Shakespeare. Shakespeare I had never liked in high school. And then I read. Sorry, who's that little known guy, you know, from, from England, Billy Shakespeare. He, he wrote a couple of plays, you know, some people like. I had never liked his stuff in high school. I never liked books when they're force fed to me. I have to gravitate towards it. And so I picked up A Midsummer Night's Dream a couple of months ago and I was just, I adored it. I just loved the, the prose and the playfulness and the, the, the use of dialogue and just absolutely everything. And so I'm sort of slowly getting back into Shakespeare and I feel like now I have a much greater appreciation for it than I did when I was 15, 16 years old.
Cool. Well, Harry, thank you so much for being on. It's my pleasure. I'm. Amazing conversation. I think we need you back again really soon.
Anytime, my friends, anytime.
Sure, we'll look forward to reading your book.
Yeah, I actually, it's, I just wrote a short story too that I've got out on submission. I'm hoping, hoping, hoping will be published. That's.
Any, any literary agents or publishers in this group? I think you found your next, your next dark horse.
Here's hoping. No, it's, I, I, I don't, I. So I write literary fiction for my novels, but for short stories and stuff, I sort of dabble in other genres and I wrote this, this science fiction short story set in the 1950s in Roswell, just before the outbreak of a zombie apocalypse. So that, yeah, it's, I don't know, it's, it was a fun little piece I wrote. So I'm hoping to get it placed in like a horror focused literary magazine or something.
So.
And then you would ask me about the podcast. The podcast is a little over a year old now and I've been able to talk to some really fascinating people about their books and the writing process. I'm not gonna lie, it was sort of a selfish endeavor for me. Like I wanted to learn from more people, so I decided to start a podcast to talk to them. But it's, it's been fabulous. I couldn't imagine doing anything else, you know, other than writing for fun. It's just a really fun endeavor and I, it seems like a lot of people really enjoy it and get a lot out of it too. You know, I, I try to ask questions that my readers might. Or my, My readers, my listeners. I'm getting ahead of myself. My listeners might think to ask an author if they had a chance to sit with them and talk.
Harry kind of famously or, or notoriously rage quit from the tech podcasting world.
Oh God. Yeah.
And he used to have a really fabulous podcast that. It was. I'm blanking on 30, but in 30. It was a 30 minute Mac podcast. Mac.
And it was, it was all. Yeah, it was, it was mostly focused on Mac because that's what was in the news all the time. But we did try to tackle, you know, newsworthy stuff. But we, we went in saying it's going to be 30 minutes and no more because really, who needs to listen to people talk about Apple for 30 for three hours? But, but anyway, we're gonna talk about
pencils for an hour.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, it's, it's actually was really interesting. I'm really not a sports television show fan, but there's a show called Pardon the Interruption that I really am fascinated by because it, they like, it's so structured and rigid and they talk about like six different sports topics in a half an hour and in 30 really reminded me a lot of, of that. It's like the tech podcast version of Pardon the Interruption. So that is no longer in existence, but that was kind of my first exposure to Harry. Oh, well, thank you, Harry. Where can one find you on the Internet if they wanted to find more out about you?
I'm on Twitter @hcmarks. I am at. You can find my podcast at two different places covered podcast.com and I've also just joined a new network started by Alex Knight of Feed Press and the impromptu podcast called Hologram radio. It's@hologramradio.org and we're looking for more podcasts. So, you know, if you've got something that fits sort of a weird niche like, like a podcast about pencils, perhaps, you know, let us know.
I haven't heard any podcasts like that.
Who would listen to that? Yeah, so, yeah, those are, those are the two main places I. You can find me. I don't think. I'm not on amp.net anymore. You know, my. I don't blog a whole lot anymore. I sort of posted a couple things on Medium. But Curious Rat, my old blog has been, I won't say defunct, but neglected mainly because the writing I do is so primarily fiction based now. Yeah, so yeah, it's mainly.
I love it. It's so. It's so cantankerous. Like it, like in a really good way.
What do you mean?
The Curious Rat? Oh.
Oh yeah. I. I do miss it. I miss writing for the site. I just. I don't know what I want that site to be anymore. You know, it started out as a tech commentary site and thank God that's over. And then it became.
You got pretty well known. You got Marco'd a couple times.
I got Marco'd a couple times. You know, big accolades there. And then I've been fireballed a time or two, mainly from satire pieces I wrote. And then I tried to spin it into more of a writing oriented site and a link blog and then the link blog thing just got played out. So I don't know, I might think of something to do with it, but who knows? For now it's Twitter and covered.
Cool. Well, thank you so much for being on Tim. Where can one find you on the Internet?
You can find me on Twitter Imwassum. I'm on Instagram sometimes. TimothyWassum. And that's me.
Basically you can find Tim nowhere.
Can I tell you, every time I pronounce Tim's full name, his last name sounds like an over pronounced version of awesome. So it's like Tim Wasem.
Tim awesome as my campaign slogan in middle school, be awesome. Vote Wasm.
I lost, but I would still vote for you.
Thanks bud.
I did actually. Just.
Just know.
Johnny, where can people find you on the Internet?
I am on Instagram. Sorry. And Twitter Ensolution. And one of these days I'll write for the damn website called pencil revolution.com again.
I am Andy Welfle. I am at Awelfley A W E L F L E on Twitter or at Woodclinched. I write on woodclinched.com and yeah, I'm on Instagram too. So this has been the Erasable Podcast. You can find more episodes at our website at Erasable Us. Erasable Us. Come join in the extended conversation that we have with an amazing group, 775 members strong, which is incredible. We are@facebook.com groups erasable. If you want to just kind of subscribe to the shows and follow the Facebook page, you can hear the official voice of erasable, which is facebook.com erasablepodcast we're on Twitter and Instagram both as raceablepodcast and if you want to join in the live streaming fun we are on mixlr. I think probably if you want to join that you should join the Facebook group and subscribe to the events happening there. So find us on itunes and in the Android Play Store. Give us a review and a rating if you can. That really helps us be seen by everybody. And you can find show notes for this episode at erasable us 41. Thank you all for listening and we will see you next time.
The intro music for the Erasable Podcast is graciously provided by this Mountain, a collaborative folk rock band from Johnson City, Tennessee. You can check out out their music at www.thismountainband.
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