Scribe

Hello, gentlemen.

Silly pin using.

Well, I appreciate it.

I mean, you're the God. You're the Godfather, after all. So I'm glad to be on. I'm glad to be on here with you, let me tell you. Yes,

Sometimes I wish I would. It was a little more simple for me some days, but, yes, I can definitely see that.

That might be my new blog name.

Yeah, yeah, I will. I will take a shot at it. But, yeah, I'm on vacation this week, and so I'm not only not recording the Pin Addict podcast this week, so I'm excited to be on here. That's. That's the truth. I told Andy I was in a little bit of withdrawal from being able to, you know, talk about, you know, pins and other other fun topics like this, and I'M also on vacation this week, so I've been enjoying a few adult beverages for the past few days. And right now I'm drinking a Magic Hat number nine, Not Quite Pale ale, which I enjoy very much. Yes, it's a great beer. It's actually pretty readily available. You can get it at the grocery store in the regular beer aisle. You don't have to go to necessarily somewhere special to get it. But that's been the beverage of choice most of the day today, so.

And I'm a little sad that I arrived on vacation without a wood case pencil. What?

And I actually regretted it because, you know, I brought a couple of books to read and taken them down to the beach and one of them is a book of poetry and I wanted to mark it up a little bit and I kind of didn't want to use pen. And I'm like, oh my God, I don't have a pencil. And I left my pencil sitting there on the desk and like this would be perfect for that. But I did pack up a couple things that I wanted to review and I did happen to have a new mechanical pencil. I know that's kind of banned on this show a little bit, but I did have a mechanical pencil and it's kind of interesting that, and you guys might like it because it is actually a tombow mono mechanical pencil. It's called the graph Shaker. It's a new one, It's a new release. I'm actually kind of impressed by it. I haven't done the review for it yet, but it'll be a pretty glowing review of this pencil. And I'll put a link in the, in the show doc for you guys to check it out. But this is really cool looking. It's actually for the, for the price. It is really like sturdy, kind of a hefty, strong feeling pen. It's got a shaker mechanism. It's got a gigantic twist eraser. I'm pretty impressed by it. I just got it right before I left on vacation. So I was going to try to review it this week or next week. So I brought it with me to play around with. So that's what I'm using with using, using it today. And I'm using it with my butcher orange field notes. Yeah. Which maybe, maybe we'll get into some field notes discussion later. Maybe not. But I'm about halfway through this guy. I'm not a prolific field notes user where I just, you know, rip through books, you know, once a week, once every two weeks. Or so it takes me about a month to fill one up. I'm about halfway through this guy, and I'm thoroughly, thoroughly enjoying it. And I'm also testing out a Nocco fodder stack, which is our. We created it as an index card holder because both Jeff and I at Nocco, where we make pen cases and pencil cases. We'll talk about that later. We made an index card holder, which we really enjoy. And everyone's been clamoring for a memo book size holder, which is, you know, standard field note size, 3 1/2 inch by 5 1/2 inch. I'm testing out a prototype of the field note size, if you will. I've got the butcher orange carrying that, the pencil and the fodder stack. All that's kind of my vacation writing kit.

It's been a pretty good kit so far. I'm very happy with everything I have here using and drinking.

Yes. What we tried to do with nox, since both Jeff and I are based in Georgia, was we tried to take some. We had to come up with, like, kind of a naming convention for our products. And instead of just naming it, like, actually what it is, like index card holder, we landed on, well, why don't we use something Georgia related? And then we kind of stuck on the Georgia mountains. So that's where all of our names come from, Georgia mountains. So that's a little nugget you can. You can have there. So that. That's where we get all our names from all the Georgia mountains. And we try to do something, you know, keep it local, keep it fun. And that. That was kind of our naming convention thing. So that's. That's everything I'm carrying.

You can blame Jeff for that. And I'm so proud of. This is all his doing. And he's like, all right, this is what I'm gonna do. And I've got this. I've got this white external fabric, and we're gonna make these cool interior fabrics, and I don't have very much of it, but we're just gonna make it. We're just gonna make it a little, you know, a limited edition, and we'll release it when we release a new product that it can match with. And I'm like, awesome. You are the man.

No, that was the Snow Jay. The first. The first one was Smango. It was Snow and Mango and this one is Snow and Blue Jay. So it's the Snow Jay.

That's all right. We. We'll do a lot of things like that. So we're just trying to have fun and do some neat stuff while we're doing it.

Yeah, I've been very, very happy with it.

Yeah. The Big, like the 0.7, 1.0 millimeter bowl.

Yeah. That's so great.

So.

I think it's because you're left handed.

Actually that's one of my favorite colors.

I still think on those they still unscrew.

Yours just might be, you know, needing some extra tlc. Maybe soak it in water or something like that. But that's a good idea. They all still should thread in on the dollar pins.

That'd be great.

I did, yeah. I went out and purchased one.

there and I have not. And I need to, because of what. When I got mine, I was like, I ordered three separate inserts for it. And you know, here I am getting this notebook and I'm starting to try to slide all these three notebooks in there. I'm like, wait a minute, it's only set up for one to go in there. So then I had to. Then I had to go start watching some of these videos to figure out how, you know, people were putting them together and things like that. So, yeah, it's. It's definitely a thing.

Not yet. I brought it with me on vacation though. But that was the thing I bought. It took me probably two years to buy this because I wasn't sure if I was gonna use it. And I was like, finally. I was just like, okay, I'm tired of looking at it, like in my wish list or whatever. I'm just gonna go buy it. And I still haven't written in it, but I brought it with me on vacation in case I got the urge.

You know my stance on this.

I saw. I haven't gone and looked at the field notes site yet, but I remember when the Shelterwood came out, I was curious. Curious how soon they'd sell out the edition because it was a really large edition. Definitely the largest at the time.

If it was 75, 000 or 90, 000, I can't. I'm drawing a blank. But I think someone tweeted me a few days ago saying that the edition sold out. Which I was surprised.

I was shocked on buying.

I'll check with Matt.

I didn't see it till you put it in the show notes, but it's very interesting.

Do it.

That was actually a great name.

Ode.

Shocking.

No, no, but that would have been pretty fun. I would have been down for that. But no, he.

got this I heart Shelter woods tattoo. But no, he, he, he emailed me several times, told me he was going to get this started. And you know, I was of course pushing him and giving him, you know, the, you know, just kind of some, some tips and some ideas that, you know, he was, he was really wanting to get this done and he asked me to, you know, be the, the first interview subject. And I was more than happy to do it because he's a really great guy.

I don't know. Am I allowed to talk about a pen topic?

Although I think this actually transcends a pen topic, to be quite honest. And this is, you know, I'm a little sad I didn't get to go on the, the Pen Addict podcast this week and just have a full bore rant at the. At the ridiculousness of a. An article in the New York Times called Fare, Fare Thee well, My Pen, the Demise of the pen by one Mr. Nick Bilton. And I'm sure that, you know, most everyone who listens to this podcast has probably seen this article because it was going around in all of our circles for the past days to where Nick just had this extreme, I don't know, moment at his home to where he couldn't find a pen and he couldn't find a piece of paper anywhere and realized that, you know, his finger is the only thing that's connecting him to the outside world. And it was just kind of this. I mean, it was pretty much a real clickbaity type article. And, you know, it's like one of those things you don't even want to bother responding to. But, like, I found myself, Someone sent it to me. I didn't see it when it came up. Someone sent me a link in Twitter, said, did you see this kind of thing? I said, no. And I went and read it and I was like, this is just asinine. It's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. And. And I just let it go. And then I found myself like two or three hours later, I was like, I can't get this out of my head. I gotta go. Just, at least just type something out. Even if I'm equally as ridiculous. I just have to get this out of my head.

I couldn't go to sleep. I think I actually got up out of bed and went to start to type just because I was just enraged about it. And, you know, the whole point of the article is just ridiculous. And, you know, I popped up a. You know, I. I let out my rage on, you know, the electronic device. You know, I didn't write it down with a pencil or a pen. I didn't let my rage out in the analog fashion, but I let my rage out digitally right back at Mr. Bilton, you know, with a little post on the pen attic. But, you know, it was just a really. It was a really clickbaity article and it was just really stupid. And, you know, just to have that type of conversation around that, especially when the Times has had other authors praising, you know, the use of analog tools, pens, papers, typewriters, you know, recently, just to have just a ridiculous article like that just felt phony to me. And, you know, that's really interesting, something out about it that's really interesting.

That's totally what that article felt like.

It really was.

So I think the pen addict thing, before I even started the blog was just something that I grew up with. I mean, I think I've always had this kind of love for the non traditional writing instruments. Not just like a regular pen, just not any pen you could use in a classroom or you'd find at the house or anything like that, but something different from what everyone was using. Like I've talked about when people have asked me this question before, I've always talked about how I had a friend who always, him and I would always get like our notebooks out and we would draw. But the challenge was to draw like the smallest thing possible, like the smallest city or the smallest airport, airplane, UFOs, planets, all that kind of stuff. So the challenge was, well, you couldn't just use any regular pen for that or pencil for that. You had to find like something super special. And we're talking about like, I'm an older guy, I'm in my 40s, so this is like late 70s, early 80s, where you can't go online and go to Jetpens or someplace like that and find all these super fine, you know, High tech pens. So I always found myself scouring whatever stores I could. I had a grandfather who was an artist and he would take me to like the local university bookstore where, you know, they'd have these engineering school, you know, engineering school. So you could get all the drafting type pens and pencils that those guys were using at the time. So I was. I've been a pen addict as long as I can remember, at least. I mean, I remember vividly like in like middle school, you know, that I really cared about what I wrote with, whether I knew it at the time. But I never wanted to use anything normal. So that was kind of the origination. It's just kind of always been in me. That's just been kind of the things I've enjoyed using. So I've always wanted to find that non traditional writing instrument to use. So that's kind of how it all started. And that's probably, you know, 30 years ago.

That stuff is fantastic.

Yeah, I'm a. I love following his stuff on Twitter. I think, I think I like about everything that comes by my screen. That's his. I was like, oh, this is great. Oh, yep. Sam again.

I've always like, you know, I think it's part of the introverts way of communicating on the Internet. Like I've, you know, I've never been like this total, you know, like social butterfly where, you know, I've been out and about with my friends and just doing all these other things that what normal people would do, I guess. So I always found, I don't know, my home on the Internet. And Tim will appreciate this. I started blogging. I think I looked it up before this podcast that I started a baseball blog. Back in 2003.

About the Atlanta Braves and their minor league system. I did that for a couple years. That's actually how I started blogging. I always wanted this release online to, okay, I've got this information in my head and I enjoy reading about this information and I want to find out more about this information. So let me start a blog and start a conversation about this information. So when I stopped doing that baseball blogging thing, I just. I don't know, I just. I don't guess I did anything for a year or two. And then I kind of got into this pen thing. You know, I've always been into pins. And I found like one day I was time for a training, you know, class for my regular job, my day job. I'm a computer engineer. Just like, I'm just a Unix guy. And so I was out at a training class and, you know, I, being the dork that I am, you know, after class I went to Office Max, you know, because, you know, that's a completely normal thing to do. And I found like my first 0.38 millimeter pen. It was a uni ball Sino RT 0.38. And I was like, wow, I didn't know this existed. So to say I started a blog on that pen is probably a little bit much, but it's not too far off because what that pen did was made me go out on the Internet and search for more pins like it. I said, well, if this one pen exists like this, there has to be others. This pen doesn't just exist in a vacuum. So I jumped online and that's when I discovered, like Japanese pens, like through jet pins and things like that.

And then I. That's blogging for me has always been about sharing information. Not about, you know, page views or, you know, different other ancillary things. It's always been about an information type of thing. You know, let me share the information I have and then maybe I can gain some information that the readers have. And it's kind of this two way street, right? And that's kind of how the pen addict began. I started. I just started down that path.

Yeah, it was actually a really cool thing and it worked out well. So for the longest time I've just been an IT guy and had this whole pin blog thing on the side. And from probably within the. I started the pen Addict In 2007, November 2007, I think within the first six months I started communicating with Jetpen. Just the emails we've all gotten. Hey, can we send you some pins that you're interested in? You want to review some pins? Yada, yada yada. Over the years our relationship grew, our communication grew and they decided they wanted to do something a little bit more just like on the blogging and social type of arena. So they up and asked did I want to work for them in a full time capacity. And of course I jumped at that chance and left my IT job and started working for them. And I worked for them remotely. They're based in San Jose, California and I'm obviously in Macon, Georgia. And that worked out great for a while, but I think it lasted about 11 months, maybe 12. And I think just towards the end that distance, I'm actually a believer in telecommuting and remote working and things like that. But for what, what we were trying to accomplish. Yeah, it just kind of didn't work. Like really, it wasn't like really, really tight. It wasn't like perfect.

So we parted ways and I went back to my. Actually I was lucky enough to go back to my old job, but I still have a super strong relationship with Jetpens. They obviously, you know, help support the Pen Addict as it is now and we're obviously on like super, super good terms and hopefully we have some, some new things we're gonna, we're working on in the future. You know, knock on wood. You know, nothing to announce yet, but knock on wood. See what I did there? I mean it was an awesome. It was a really great experience. So yeah, Andy, you and I were kind of doing that same. You know, we were working for those online companies at the same time. I think it seemed like when I was working. I think that's probably when I first found out about Andy Welfle was, you know, that was pre wood clenched.

So you had another, did you have another blog besides the pencils.com thing?

Yeah, it was weird when I, when I was with, when I was actually a Jetpens employee, I kept Pen Addict completely as normal. That was part of the deal. Right. Like I kept up the same like penatic, didn't skip a beat. Right. It stayed like the same reviews, the same, you know, content, the same schedule type of thing. And so yeah, it was, I mean it was really good. It was a really great experience. It was kind of an eye opening experience and I'm forever grateful for, you know, them allowing me that opportunity and you know, hope I wish it would have worked out like in a, in a long term thing. But, you know, I wasn't ready to pick up and move to California. Not that they would ask me, but I think that was kind of the. Working across country, across three different time zones for like a one person me was. Was kind of difficult.

Yep.

Yeah. So I'm trying to think where I first came on Mike's radar. And I think it was more just through. It was definitely through Patrick Roan. And I was friends with Patrick online because he liked what I was doing with Pen Addict. Right. So he had. This was the time when here he was doing the Enough podcast and he's always had the minimal Mac and patrickrone.com and he was always talking about pens and paper and things like that. So we just, Patrick and I kind of connected and at that time he was doing the Enough podcast on the 70db network, which was Mike Harley's first network podcast network. And Patrick would Tell me you need to do a podcast. And, you know, I, you know, I've got this. I do a podcast with this guy, Mike Hurley, and he, you know, he does everything, you know, he does, you know, puts all the podcasts together and whatever. All you got to do is show up and talk. And I was like, seriously want to do a podcast about pens? I mean, how do you. There's no, there's no way that this is going to be any good at all. And I was very negative about it. I was like, number one, I don't have the time. Number two, I don't have the skill. Number three, I don't have a clue. I mean, I don't. I don't know what you expect me to talk about for however long a podcast should be, but they got me on the, they got me on the enough podcast and I'd have to find that episode number to put in the show notes. But Patrick and Mike had me on the enough podcast and we talked about pins. So Patrick.

Actually went pretty well. It went pretty, pretty well. And Mike, after that, you know, me and Patrick continue on our conversation, but Mike Hurley, he kept hounding me. He's like, dude, we need to do a podcast about pins. Me and you, let's do this. I was like, you're absolutely insane. I have no clue why you want to do this. And I'd brush him off. And then like a few weeks later, he's like, we really need to do this. This is like, seriously, this will work. Trust me. We need to do this. And I'm like, fine. So we did it. I mean, I remember, like the first one or two episodes. I was like, this is gonna be like a three episode podcast. I mean, this has no shot, but it's just kind of taken on a life of its own since then. And we're 115 episodes into it, and I miss it when I don't do it. Like, we're in a hiatus right now because Mike's starting a new podcast network. As you know, we're leaving the big boys at five by five and branching out on our own. So we're in a few week hiatus, but I really miss doing it. It's a great platform, and I'm so glad that you guys decided to create the Erasable podcast because it's such a perfect platform to discuss these type of things. And you can express things a little bit differently than you can on a blog and things like that, and people get to know your personalities and link those two things together. And it just kind of comes this whole community aspect, like you guys are finding out with the Facebook page and things like that. It's just a really, really awesome community. It's a great platform, and I'm super, super happy to be doing it.

Yeah. My mail person, like. Like Johnny was saying earlier about which his regular mail carrier was back. I'm sure my mail mail carrier is just like, who is this fanatic person?

can't fit in the mailbox and I have to drive to the door or drop at the door? Yeah. It's one of the most awesome communities I could ever imagine being involved in. It's just so, so cool to be able to talk to these people and to be able to share these things with everyone.

Oh, man, I was excited when. I was excited when you guys started it because, you know, I've known all you guys online, obviously, for. For a long, long time, especially, you know, obviously in the blogging circles. And to have a. A, A pencil podcast out there, it's just. It was Just. It's cool.

It's the right time, and it's the right fit, and it's the right topic. So I am more. More than glad to support you guys in anything you're doing.

And I guess this is my favorite kind of stuff. I love the listener feedback.

Absolutely, 100% yes. And multiple products at that.

So what I would like to ask you guys, and we have two things in the. We're not even to prototype phase yet, but we have two things we're discussing. One I will not discuss on the air because it is way far away from being done and it's really cool to the second one I would. The standard pen case is not good for wood case pencils. Right. I mean, I think we can all agree on that, right? So it doesn't fit. It's not the right format, it's not the right layout, it's not the right style. So in. Traditionally I think most people have just used a standard pouch. Throw everything in one big pouch. I've got some ideas for more individual pencil storage, but is there something you would like to see? Like what would make a pencil case work for you guys from a wood case pencil perspective?

Right.

Okay, I got you.

So it would definitely have to accommodate for the longest length of the pencil. Right. The fresh, the fresh pencil. And it would have to have a protection method for. So you're not snapping off the lead from your, you know, your classroom friendly sharpener daggers.

Right? Yes. So we need harpoon protection. Yeah. So. Okay. So that's definitely the things I'm. Those are the things we're designing around. I don't have a working prototype yet, but. Good. That's. I mean that's, that's the page we're on. It's kind of depending on how we're going to put that together.

Oh, that's a good idea. Yeah, I definitely didn't consider something like that. Yeah, that's perfect.

Like a little shorty. Shorty holder.

Yeah, yeah.

They just to tell you the idea that I've had and I haven't totally laid this out in the, the products and cutting style that we make, but would be like a, like a. You could hold a dozen pencils, six on the bottom, flap in between, six on the top, zip away, zip. Three sided around like a flat case as long as I could manage the tips not breaking in there somehow. So that's, that's something I've been. I'VE been thinking about that I think might work pretty well. I don't know. It's something. So the best thing about starting this business with Jeff is we're able to do these things on the fly and see if they work or not. I mean, we've had some hits, had some misses and things like that. So it's cool to be able to kind of fulfill a need of what all of us pen and pencil geeks want to have. So it's been good.

Well, I appreciate that. I mean, it's something, you know, we. We stress over how, you know, it's such a new thing and which direction do we want to take it? So, you know, it's definitely a learning process. And no, those Keras Customs will not be. Are not a limited edition. So you. You'll be able to get it anytime you want. Once we get. Once we get restocked in them. We sold out the first batch.

Yeah. So one of the challenges just on the pen front and then recently mixing in the pencils front is how do you use everything that you have? You know, that's a big thing, you know, with me is, you know, if I'm spending money on a fountain pen, I just don't want to have it sit there and collect dust. So I don't have any, like, dead set plan. But when I choose a writing instrument for the day, that's the writing instrument I use all day. So whether it's a pen, a certain fountain pen that I've inked up, or it's a pencil, like, I've been like, I carry the. The pencil I'm sad I left at home is actually the. The Tombow mono pencil, not the mechanical version that I'm using today. That's the pen I've been carrying in my backpack that I mix into my rotation. So I'm always using something different every day. I don't use it. I don't ever use the same thing twice in a. Twice in a row, two days in a row. And then I've been mixing in more pencils because I've been finding more enjoyment in using pencils. It's hard to explain because I've never been a wood case pencil guy at all. I used to be a super fine point, ballpoint or gel pen, and then a super fine mechanical pencil. Those were, like, the few things that I carry. You know, this is before, well, well, before I was into fountain pens.

But I don't know if it's because of the fountain pens that I got into that more. The more traditional wood case pencil thing. I've just found, like, a lot of enjoyment using it. So I don't have a definitive answer to that, but I do mix them in on a daily basis. And when I use a certain writing instrument, I think stick with that writing instrument all day or else I would never use everything that I have right now. And that's a big thing with me is I want to. If I'm not using something, I need to get rid of it and it needs to go away. So I don't know. I hope that answered that question.

I

I haven't found that one yet. I think it probably exists, but I'm still in the grand scheme of things, I'd say, new to the whole fountain pen world. Like, I've got maybe like two or three years experience with, like, using them on a heavy, heavy, regular basis. And I actually like gray inks a lot. That's like one of my. Like, I like blue black inks. That's just a real, kind of a dusty, dark blue. So that's in that same. Grays kind of fall in that same color range. The one gray I use is a pilot Iroshizuku. It's called Fuyu Sayu Gun, I think is what. That's at least what we're gonna go with.

It's F, U, Y U S, Y O G U N we'll call actually translates into Winter Shogun. So. But it's not a. It's not a pencil color. It's not a graphite color. I don't think it's a great. It's a really, really beautiful deep gray. I don't think it favors pencil. There's other companies I know diamine makes. I believe they make one called Graphite that I think is really focused on that, but I have not tested that for myself to see how it compares to a graphite pencil.

Yeah, that's. That's definitely one I'll pick up because I enjoy gray inks. But I haven't used it to say. But I. I do know this. This Fuyu Sayu Gun is a beautiful, beautiful gray ink. I can't say that it.

There's a different texture with pencil, graphite and inks. There's. There's so much depth.

In each of these things. But it's a. It's a separate type of look, so it's hard to nail that down. And I haven't found one yet. But there's certainly ones out there that should be a pretty good match. I Just haven't gone that far yet.

wrong, but no, I'd say that's pretty, right?

Yeah. What they do with those. Those 1670 inks are really neat. They did. I'm not looking in front of it, but the first one was a. Was a red is, I think, rouge, hematite or something like that.

And then the second one was an ocean blue. I can't remember the blue. Was it blue Provence?

I don't.

And those. Those inks I've used, the first two. They are super, super saturated inks. I mean, they are really deep, dark colors with extra sheen, extra. I don't know. Like, the. The rouge had a lot of extra gold in it. Like, you were talking about color in it when it dried.

Yeah, that. That'll be one to check out for sure. And you definitely missed the episode of the Pentatic podcast where we talked about the G. Herbal pronunciation guide.

It was pretty impressively.

Yeah. And you would actually want a little bit of feedback too, which you know, you can definitely get some super glassy smooth nibs or you can get some nibs with a little bit of feedback in them which would probably be more, more pencil like if you will.

This is the super, super interesting question. A year ago, Brad, it was a clear answer and it was mechanical pencils. Today's Brad, it's a clear answer and it's wood pencils. And it's not close. It's not close. And I wish I could explain it. It's probably your guys fault, it's in some way shape or form. But I will reach for a wood pencil absolutely 100% over a mechanical pencil.

They are not holding a knife to my throat. Johnny's not Johnny standing here, one of his bayonet sharp pencils in my ear hole. It's, there's something about it and like I said, I liken it to the fountain pen. There's something different about it than all these other types of pens like a ballpoint pen or a gel link pen. There's something about a fountain pen in relation to those things that's different and it fires off something different in your brain or something like that. And it's the same thing with mechanical pencils. I love a beautifully designed engineering mechanical pencil like a rotring 600. That's my type of mechanical pencil I'm enjoying more these days. Picking up a great wood case pencil. And this may sound stupid, but a lot of it is. When I figured out how to sharpen it properly to make a nice long point, which is what I prefer as opposed to like a short point. Yeah, that made a big difference for me. It's in a visual aspect that's kind of a big deal for me. Like I use like a nice long. I want a nice long point even if it might be more fragile as opposed to a short, shorter, stubbier point when I'm sharpening a pencil. So yeah, definitely would these days and not close. Really.

Yeah, Maybe that's it. I mean, it takes less effort to write with. Right. It's more flowing, it's got more movement to it. But you know, on some of the pencils that I've discovered, you know, I was always worried about those tips breaking. But, you know, all these pencils these days have such good lead quality that, you know, you're able to keep that sharp point forever.

The classroom friendly sharpener, Mr. Gambler. That's, that's 110% your fault.

I went with red.

Yeah, so I actually, I think I quizzed you on this when I was ready to break down. And like, you know, I think it was probably just the basic explained to me. Sharpeners, this is what I want. Tell me what to get. And this one nailed it. I mean, it's, it's such a revelation using this type of sharpener. You know, despite the, you know, I've never used one that has what. What do you call it, where it grips the pencil and kind of holds it itself. The.

Okay. So like the aperture reaches out, grabs the pencil and holds it there for you to sharpen. I'm like, whoa.

So yeah, that thing's ridiculous. And for 20 bucks or whatever they are, that's like the steal of the century.

I have a question, I have a question for you guys first that I want to ask before I give my pen recommendations. So in my newly found love for the wood pencil, there's basically a choice you can make if, well, not a choice you can make. There's different types of erasers and there's, you know, the regular round erasers, there's a large black wing erasers and then there's no erasers. So what is the preference for the erasable podcast? Are you an eraser on your pencil guy or are you a non eraser pencil guy?

What does the Godfather think?

Yeah, I'm finding myself in that camp too, the non eraser. But I don't know why. I think it's because I am a pen user and I will just scratch out the word and keep going, kind of like you said. So I don't really have a use for eraser. Plus, I'm like super anal retentive. I don't like the mess of the eraser and then streaking my hand across the graphite on the page and getting gray marks on my hand. So I'm like super weird that way. So the, I don't know, the non eraser pencils seem to be the ones I'm gravitating to these days in my initial foray into these pencils. All right, so my pen choices for the pencil fans are the uni Ball Sino DX. It's actually called the UM151, which Tim and Annie were talking about the UM153 earlier. The UM151 is the smaller tipped variant. I prefer the 0.38mm. They are probably the best gel ink pen going. The problem is that you just can't find them everywhere.

You pretty much have to order them online, you know, at somewhere like Jetpens or wherever you want to shop. So that. That's probably one of my favorites. Alongside the Zebra Sarasa clip, it's also a gel link pen. It's the 0.4 millimeter. It comes in smaller and larger, but the 0.4 millimeter is the sweet spot for me. They have a beautiful blue black, and as Tim reminded me, they have an excellent gray that I've reviewed on the blog. That one is getting close to a pencil type shade, so definitely check that one out. It's a really, really beautiful color. I enjoy riding with that one very, very much. And if you want something extra, extra fine. Even Finer than the 0.38 Uni DX. And the 0.4 Zebra Sarasa clip is the Uni Ball Jetstream 0.5 millimeter. They also have a 0.38 millimeter. I know the, the number sounds larger, but It's a hybrid ballpoint 8, so the line is even finer. It's kind of crazy how fine of a line that this pen can write. And it's a real clean, crisp, sharp line, like in a consistent line, like you'd find in a Pencil. And it's just a really, really cool pen. And, you know, all these pens are like 2, 3 bucks each, so they're. They're really good stuff to start out with. If you're just kind of dipping your toes into finding some new pens, you

I know they. I know they split up the Tombows. I can't. I don't. I'm not looking at it to see if they've done that with the Black Wings yet, but they've definitely done it with the Tombows and all the grades.

I don't. I. I was really curious about that eraser question. Because that's something that I haven't wrapped my head around. Like, why do I like this? Or is there a reason for this? Or is there a preference for this in the. In the hardcore pencil community? Eraser or non eraser? But I think that that was my primary question. But no otherwise. Shoot. You guys are. You guys are the best. And I appreciate you having me on. This was fun.

get a hold of Brad.

I am on Twitter, which is maybe my favorite form of communication out there at dowdyism. D o w D y I s m The blogs@penadict.com and Instagram is naticd Pretty cool.