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Transcript
Hello, everybody, and welcome to the inaugural episode of the Erasable Podcast, a podcast by and for people who love wooden pencils. I'm Andy Welfle. I am the editor of woodclinch.com, well, editor and sole contributor. With me is Johnny Gamber, who is the editor of Pencil Revolution.com and Tim Wasem, who is the editor of the Daily carry dot com. Hey, guys.
Hello.
How's it going?
Excellent. How are you?
I'm good. I'm very excited to be doing this.
Yeah. Yeah.
I'm really thrilled this came together so quickly. Yeah, this is really exciting. I'm really glad to be here.
Cool.
So I think we should probably start. We are still kind of figuring out what this podcast is, what it means to everybody, what will be on it, but I think we should really start with each host, origin stories, kind of finding out how everybody started using pencils, specifically wooden pencils, why they decided to blog about them, etc. So I think Johnny's. Yours has been around probably the longest as far, like, least out of the three of us. How did you get started with pencils?
Well, back In, I guess, 2004, after my first summer of a PhD program and I had to do an independent study because I had this nice fellowship, I had to take classes, so I had a lot of time on my hands. So I got into Hemingway a little late in life, and I was reading A Movable Feast, of course. And back then, moleskins were all the rage. And everyone talked about that scene where he sharpens his pencil into the saucer of his cafe au lait. It's very romantic. So I ran out to the store and bought some cheap pencils and came home and wrote them with my moleskin. Like, these are the best eggs ever. You know, you're always looking for what pen is going to work in Moleskins because the paper is crap. So nothing writes in them very well, but pencils do. So I was blogging on a personal blog, and then I sort of kicking around the idea of doing a pencil blog for a long time. And then the school year started back up, so I got busy. And the next summer in 05, I was studying for my doctoral exams prelims, and I found myself with more time on my hands. So then I kind of started it. And Armand from Moleskinery, he picked it up and then put it on Moleskinery for their giant audience. And then all of a sudden, it kind of took off before I was ready. So that's how it all started.
That's awesome. So, 04.05.
Time frame? Well, in my head. 04 on the web.
05. Gotcha. That makes sense. And do you remember what kind of a pencil it was that was originally the one that you used?
I still have the very pencil. Wow. I have it sort of locked away. It was a Papermate American Naturals, back when they were a dollar for a pack. Wow.
Actually just found one of those in a random pen cup at school.
They are really nice pencils.
They are.
I kind of wish I bought more. Now they're gone.
Pencil apocalypse.
Tim, what about you?
Well, I actually. I've been a. In all honesty, I've been a pen guy my whole life, really, since I was a really young kid. My dad, his job had him traveling a lot, so he'd be on the road, and he knew that I liked pens. And he started to notice that I would grab hotel pens before he left. And so over time, he started bringing those to me. I started collecting pens that way because I would have these little. The boxes that checks come in, and I would fill it with all these hotel pens that my dad would bring me. And this is when I was probably five or six. So I've been a pen guy for a long time. Always been picky about that. And then really, in the last, I'd say, three years, pencils creeped back in, which, of course, I used them all the time when I was in school, elementary school, middle school mostly. And that was what I generally refer to as the mechanical pencil age. You know, when mechanical pencils became the coolest thing you could ever have. Especially the ones that looked like pencils, which is kind of ironic, but.
The zebras.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember I had a teacher who had one of those and would always ask them about it. Really nerdily. They finally. And then at the end of the year, she gave me one.
That's awesome.
But about the last three years, they started creeping back in for a few reasons. One is that I teach now. So I'm in school and I'm surrounded by pencils all day long. There's pencils everywhere. And so when I started teaching, just by exposure, I started to see them a lot and then started to realize things like how crappy, crappy pencils are. And so with my students, they'd go up to my sharpener and they'd try to sharpen a pencil and they'd be like, you, sharpener's broken. And I'd say, no, you actually just have a terrible pencil. So that kind of led me towards that direction from pens, where I was like, what are some good pencils? Which the actual order of things is it led me to the Palomina Blackwing 602, because I found out about the original because I'm also an enormous Steinbeck fan, so I had known about him mentioning the Blackwing, ended up planning about the 602, and then kind of went from there. I guess I kind of followed the Internet wormhole from the new 602 back and started finding all kinds of crazy, awesome stuff. And then it wasn't until just, gosh, three months ago that I started the Daily Carry, which was just what I needed at the time, because I'm sure you all can attest to this. There's only so many people in your life who are willing to listen to you talk about pens or pencils.
Oh, yeah.
So I found myself talking about pencils all the time and talking about this stuff, and I realized I needed an outlet and made the website. And then once I put the site together, it's a squarespace site, I quickly realized a pattern that I started reviewing a lot of woodcase pencils, and now I just sort of hadn't realized how much I had been using them for so long.
See ya. They are.
Well, I. I mean, I've been using pencils for, you know, as long as I can remember, but. But definitely, like, you know, middle school, high school, I would use pens just because, you know, they're. They're cooler and, you know, you can. I had a Fisher space pen that I really loved, so I used that a lot. Yeah. And I. It wasn't until 2007, I ordered from a website called pencilthings.com which is still around, but just under different management. I ordered a pack of. A sampler, pack of pencils of really nice pencils, and they came to my house. And like all of you, I realized how much better. Better pencils are. And I wrote a little review of it from my personal blog. I think it was even, like a live journal at the time. And I was using that, and I emailed the proprietor at the time and I said, hey, check out my review. And he was like, this is really great. Would you like to be a product reviewer on the Pencil Things blog? And I was like, heck, yeah. So I. So he sent me some free stuff, and I reviewed it, and we went on like that for a couple years. And then in 2009 or 10, I can't remember, he left the organization, and they sort of decided to not continue doing blogging. So I Went independent and started Wood Clinched, which is kind of my own. You know, it's, it's the. Wood Clinched is the name of like the trademark for sandwiching pieces of wood together over a graphite core that's on many of the sides, on the sides of many Eberhard Faber pencils. So that just happened. That.com was open and I snagged it and that's where I've been ever since. So I've kind of gone in from, you know, using pencils to collecting pencils too. I have a bunch of pencils that I would never use, but I just like to have around because they're super cool. So. Yeah, so that is, that is kind of the origin stories for all of us. I'm sure that more, more about it will come up as we, as we go on. So it's, it's pretty freeform. Eventually we'd like to do some, have some guests, we'd like to have, do some features. But in the meantime, I'd really be interested to know, you know, why pencils? Why do you guys use pencils? I don't know if anybody would like to start and really has a, has a good definite answer to that question,
but I have a definite answer to that question.
Yeah, go ahead, Johnny.
But a lot of it comes from, like watching my daughter, I found, you know, when you give a grown up a nice pencil or you give a kid like any pencil, they just like start scribbling with it and they get that like look on their face. Like, pencils are like pure joy. Like creating for yourself, not social media and blogging and stuff at work. Like, I'm drawing, I'm writing. This is stupid. I don't care. This guy's got a mustache he doesn't need. But I think pencils are cool because it's just like, you know, I'm doing this for myself. Nobody's gonna read it, it's gonna smear, you know, rough draft type stuff.
Yeah.
Before you start, you know, creating things for other people and it becomes work.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, that's. I can, I can identify with that for sure. That idea of it being. The pencil markings are this temporary thing in some ways because they can be erased and they can smear and all these things. And that's really charming to me. My reason for why pencils is probably a perfect example of why people don't want to talk to me about pencils because I get kind of weird. I've been thinking about this a lot for the last While. And where I ended up is I had this realization that pencils, the way they function, the idea of writing, but then having the ability to stop and erase and start over and to pause and sharpen while you think, it just, it really feels like an analog for how our brain works when we're creating something that using a pencil, it slows you down just enough, but it writes fast enough so you don't feel like you're being held back. I guess I've always felt that. And also just the fact that you can. When I look at a pencil, I understand the materials, what it's made of, where it comes from. It's wood, it's graphite, it's wax, maybe a little paint and some rubber eraser. It's simple and you can identify with it. And I've always just been charmed by that. Also just the fact of being in solidarity with great writers from so far back. Thoreau, Steinbeck, these famous pencil pushers, these people who used pencils and loved pencils so much. And figure, that was one of my. I could have included this in the origin story. It's just that if a pencil is good enough for them, it's got to be good enough for me. When I'm scribbling my terrible short stories down my notebooks,
I know that I really like pencils for. I mean, you know, obviously the reason you guys, you guys like. And definitely, you know, pencils. Pencils are indeed out of a grand tradition. I think it even could go back further to. For modern day. You know, I was. I was on the Penatic podcast lately and they were kind of asking me, you know, why I like pencils. And really a pencil is a really good, just kind of modern, refined equivalent to the basic, basic form of writing. You know, just writing on a cave wall or something with a piece of charcoal. You know, you're rubbing carbon off onto a surface and really, you know, pencils may have gotten a nice casing, some paint, an eraser, but essentially it's still that. So it's really kind of the purest form of writing that I think you can get. That's another question, like Tim said, why people don't. People don't like to ask me that question because I'll just start talking about how pure it is, you know.
But I actually heard somewhere recently on. I think it was like how, how things are made or where that show is on Discovery. Yeah, I saw the pencil episode and they said something about how is it graphite is the closest substance to diamonds because it's like, superior. It's like almost just like one step from being a diamond.
Yeah, that's awesome.
They were useful, though.
Yeah, definitely. It's funny, I watched. Oh, I can't remember where I saw it. Maybe Gizmodo or something. I'll find a link and put it in some show notes. But I found, you know, you can take carbon and you can crush into diamonds. You can actually take ashes from, you know, somebody being cremated and have them turned into pencils.
Creepy. I know.
Creepy, but awesome. I'll have to find that. I decided that's the way I want to go.
You need to write that into my will.
Yeah, I want to be somebody's pencil. So everything took a little bit of a morbid turn here.
It's gonna happen.
Yeah, definitely. So, really, because this is the first episode, we don't want to call it the first weekly episode or anything because it's the inaugural one. I guess the proper term would be the inaugural episode. So kind of as we go and as we progress, I'm sure we'll kind of see what works best. But besides just talking about our favorite pen, what do you guys really see this? What purpose do you see this podcast serving?
I've noticed, you guys might have noticed this too, that as social media takes off, people don't comment on blogs as much. Yeah, because, you know, the novelty of seeing something you said on the Internet when you don't have your own blog is kind of gone. So it could sort of, you know, add to the conversation a little more than like we used to have that can back in the day in 2005.
The golden days of vlogging.
Yeah.
No, I totally agree. I really love this medium a lot. I've been listening to a lot of podcasts. The Penatic podcast, for one, is one of my favorites. A lot of the other shows on the 5x5 network. So I have been wanting a reason to get into this for a while. So I think it's a really good kind of extra accessible extension to, you know, what we are already doing on our blogs.
Yeah, definitely. It's a. One thing about the podcast in general that I'm really attracted to is just, it's. It's one of those things that as the world speeds up, people will need podcasts more. I mean, I think about all the kinds of information I get from podcasts and even just the outlet I get from hearing podcasts. I listen to podcasts about, of course, Pen Addict, Anderson Pension. I listen to several different baseball podcasts and some there's a philosophize. This podcast that I've been really into lately, it's just nerd. But in my car, I can sort of, like, learn what I want to learn or I can think about what I want to think about instead of just sort of being a slave to our terrible radio here in East Tennessee.
Yeah, we have some good public radio up here in Fort Wayne, Indiana. But it's definitely. There's a lot of just like, loud commercial radio, and podcasts are a really good way. I have a half an hour drive to work and back, and, yeah, it's just a good way to just sort of unwind and just take things kind
of linearly, I guess. I didn't actually hit on my answer to your question personally, as far as why we. Where I see this podcast going or the purpose of it, things like that. It just definitely feels like it's filling a hole in the. In the podcast world. I mean, with.
If.
I mean, the Pen Audit podcast is obviously very popular, and not saying that will automatically be that popular, but just that at least I know from my experience that when I was. When I've listened to that, I kind of came to it late and started from the beginning and worked my way up to present. I found myself just really deeply wanting them to talk about pencils more. But I can't blame them for that because that's not their. Not their mo, you know, so it just seems like a. It seemed. The idea seemed like a very natural thing.
Yeah.
Something that I could contribute to and offer and hang on both of your coattails, because you probably know a lot more than I do.
Oh, hey, I know people who know things, but I just make it up as I go along.
Yeah.
So, yeah. So probably we should plug in case we have any listeners here who did not come to us from, you know, from the pen world or didn't know about this podcast. Check out thepennaddict.com they have a podcast about pens. They do it every week, which is amazing. They actually had me on last week, which would have been March 4th.
Episode 96.
Episode 96. And we did talk about pencils, and it was a really great conversation. And I know, you know, they. They certainly, you know, we filled up the whole hour and then some, which was super awesome. But, yeah, I know that they would like to talk more about pencils, but, you know, they have. There's. There's so many pens out there, guys. Like, we're gonna have to look back and look at, you know, do various things, but they could you know, they could fill an entire hour each week on brand new pens, which is pretty incredible. But yeah, they're a great podcast and you should definitely listen to them and definitely a big inspiration for me as we go forward with this. So we should probably kind of talk about what pencils are you guys using right now? And by right now I mean literally, maybe right now or maybe just in the last week or so. I know that I'm using the. I just got done with the. The triograph, which is a big kind of thick triangular pencil by Koh I Noor. Yeah, it really is like fat P, H a T or F a T?
F a T.
It's a cool pencil. I actually just posted yesterday a review on my blog, but it's kind of like the Sharpie marker of pencils. It lays down a really big thick line and it's super cool looking. I don't have much of a use for it because I really don't draw. I'm a writer or I write with him, I should say. And it doesn't make fine lines very well. If you're writing on like a college bound, like a college ruled notebook or something where you have kind of thin lines, it's just not going to lay them down very well at all. But it would be really good if there was like a large format screen that I was writing on or something like that. I like that one a lot. And I actually just started a few days ago using some pencils that I found at Staples. They're made by Statler and this may not be the appropriate show for them because we're about wooden pencils and this one is called a woodless pencil.
Oh, is it that full HB pencil?
Yeah, the full hb. Those are neat. Yeah, they're cool. I'll describe this to you guys since we're not a video podcast. It's basically just a big stick of graphite with some lacquer over it.
Oh, nice.
Yeah.
And this isn't the Wopex or whatever?
No, this is. I don't think it is. No, this is just. There's no wood at all. It's just. Just graphite. And it has a really. Yeah, it has a really nice solid feel. It actually, you know how some pencils, you can kind of feel the graphite rattling around in the wood a little bit?
Yeah.
This one obviously has none of that, just because it's just one solid piece and it's, it's super sturdy and solid. But I think in making it such. So it doesn't like crack or break easily, I think they lose. It loses a little bit of performance. I'll try to get this more fleshed out for the blog review, but it's definitely. It writes very lightly, and it's hard to just kind of take notes because I don't write super, super hard on the paper. So I can't use this very well at all. But it's. It's a good price and it feels really great in your hand, Johnny, you said something. Have you used it?
Yeah. They're kind of sticky.
Yeah.
I thought they would write like the WO picks, but they don't.
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, they're kind of. They're kind of waxy, I guess, a little bit. Yeah. But I mean, they erase really well and they look super cool. It kind of looks like those wood pencils that, you know, have the dyed black wood, like a. Like a Rhodia pencil.
But.
Yeah, and they're. They're pretty cheap. They're maybe a couple dollars at Staples if you have one of those.
Yeah, Staedtler's been doing a really good job with their ferrules and erasers lately. Yeah, there is something about the design they pick. It's very nice. Yeah, they put them on.
Well, I like those a lot. Cool. Johnny, what are you. What is your current. Current number two?
My current number one is actually the Bopex.
Oh, that's right. You just had a blog. A blog post about that.
Yeah. I've been using them like crazy. And I just sent some to Gunther at Lexicalacher and Matthias at Bleichdift, because in Europe they can't get the ones with the erasers. Hmm. Oddly enough. And I think they're, like, ridiculously expensive there. They're like five bucks for a dozen and a half here.
Oh, wow. It's a nice score.
And I've also been using the new Palomino, which was just on my blog, and a little tiny, fat Dixon pencil with a fat pencil clip that I bought on ebay that my daughter keeps stealing from me.
Is that the. That's the one I was asking about the other day. I was wondering. I was wondering what that clip was.
Yeah, I bought them on ebay. They're actually from those. Those old fashioned, like, screwdrivers that kind of older gents would have in their pocket protector. That's what they go to.
Cool.
I had no idea until I found one of those screwdrivers in my pen cup.
You know, try as I might, I cannot find a good pencil clip that I really Like I. I don't use them. Use a pencil clip that often, but I just can't. Like I can't find one that really does it for me.
Have you tried the faultless clip, that like two piece thing?
I don't think I have. No, I haven't.
They're nice, but they leave a little dent if that bothers you. But actually after the dent, it sort of makes a nice little catch for your pocket.
Yeah, that's a good idea. I'll check that out and I'll find a link for it. Tim, what are you using currently?
Well, I'm actually also using one of the new. Excuse me, one of the new palominos. That's what I'm writing my notes in as we talk. But it's a palomino B, which I got. I was kind of on a quest to find something that would be comparable to the 602. Just kind of compare. Have something close to compare to it. And yeah, I'm really enjoying that. And also kind of my current favorite, actually that's the one I'm writing with right now. But my current favorite is the field notes pencil. The field notes brand pencil I've just fallen in love with because I'm a sucker for a natural finish. Mostly because I have sweaty hands and so it lets me grip and doesn't get in the way, it doesn't get slippery. And I also love a round pencil. And so it's kind of the perfect meeting of those two things, which I really love. It's a little hard in general for what? I prefer kind of a B to 2B kind of person just because I do a lot of longhand writing of stories, lesson plans, things like that, where I'm writing for a long amount of time and so I like it to feel smooth so I don't have to be pressing down really hard. But I love this pencil. It just feels good in my hand. I love.
Had a. I love that green eraser.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The really simple ferrule on it. I really love. It just seems like it was. It almost makes me feel like I'm holding a pencil that was made in somebody's basement, which I love.
I actually don't know if that one was sort of sourced and designed by Aaron Draplin or if that was more from the. The Kudal guys.
Yeah, it's a good question.
Yeah, I think.
Was that on. Johnny, was that in your review where you're talking about wondering if it was actually made by the generals? Yeah, because it's made in America.
Brian from Field Notes. I don't know if this was on the record or off the record told me that generals wouldn't take their order back then because their order was too small. So he wouldn't say who it was. But I suspect it's Musgrave because Musgrave also makes the pencils for Wright notepads. The Baltimore company. Yeah. Yep.
And they're now making the pencils for pencils dot com, aren't they? Most of them, yep. Most of the Palomino line.
That's my neck of the woods. I've been wanting to go visit there, but I haven't managed.
Probably this summer I was driving down to Florida over the winter and we passed Shelbyville and I really wanted to stop and check it out, but I didn't have a chance. Maybe we should all take a class field trip down there.
Yeah, you do like an on site episode.
Heck yeah. A guy I know here in Fort Wayne used to. He grew up in Shelbyville and he actually worked at the Musgrave factory over summers while he was in high school just packing trucks. And he would come home and his hands would just be completely, completely dark with graphite.
He probably hates pencils.
He likes them. He still uses them, which is awesome.
Yeah.
Cool. So, yeah, those are the pencils that we're all kind of currently using or thinking about. Maybe the ones that are in our consciousness. And. And I'm sure, I mean, I'm sure that changes all the time. Johnny, I think you were saying that you, you know, just whatever is there is kind of what your new. Your current favorite pencil is.
Yeah, mine have changed a few times today.
Yeah. How many. How many pencils? Describe your desk to me. How many pencils do you have just kind of laying around?
Well, there's a pen cup or pencil cup on my nightstand, another one on my bedroom table. Shelf in my dining room, a shelf in my living room, one on top of the fridge. They're just like. They're just like everywhere. And they're in my pocket. And I'm sort of getting paranoid because my son's crawling around like an eye patch, like, so be a little more careful. And then my daughter's pencil cups are everywhere in the dining room also. Wow. So sometimes when you walk by, you just catch a nice little whiff of pencils.
It's a natural deodorizer. Yeah. I definitely have, you know, three or four pencils laying on my desk and then a bunch more in a, you know, big pen cup on the. On the desk.
Yeah.
I've got the ones I had mentioned and also a MyPal from Shelbyville, Tennessee. Musgrave MyPal that Johnny actually sent me. So I've been using that today. And the backwards Palomino had some unsuccessful surgery trying to take the ferrule off the back and snapped it. So I sharpened from the jagged end so that it would look nice.
He's dead, Jim.
I also have a. I have a pencil cup that's got a few kind of randoms. The Faber Castle that's a tribute to
you Pencil pen Edict.
Guys, the. The grip, which I actually dislike quite a bit. I don't ever use it, so it's made it to the pen cup along with some other kind of randoms. But I have my Dudeck custom groove which I actually reviewed today. Shameless Plug and posted a review of my custom groove that Mike made me. And Mike, I should mention, just is one. He's an amazing guy and he was really helpful in actually creating my blog in general. He was really encouraging, but he was open to making this custom groove that I can put six pens and nine pencils. So I've got a bunch in there. Some Black Wings, a Bullet pencil and Forest Choice, which is a Forest choice and a ladee, which are two that always jump into my number one spot over and over again.
That's cool. Yeah, that grip 2001, I don't know what it is. To me it's always like super scratchy. Like it just kind of digs a little bit. I know they used to melt and you know what? That happened to me. I left one in my car during a summer day and the dots melted.
Little nubs.
Yeah. Yeah. I was moving once and an entire box of pencils became a block of pencil. I was really upset. There were some really cool pencils there that were totally ruined.
Just one solid pencil.
Cool.
Well, I'd be interested to know we talked a little bit about, you know, everybody's top favorites. What are some other ones? Maybe, let's say, Tim, we kind of all talked earlier about maybe our top three to five pencils and kind of generally on a, you know, on a typical day. Tim, for you, what might those be?
Well, some I've already mentioned, but the field notes pencil. Currently, currently, if I was doing like a current top five, that would definitely be in there. That's the one that I find behind my ear at school a lot along with the. The Blackwing 602. Really? Or the. Or the Pearl, depending on the day. It just depends on what I'm What I'm looking for the Blackwing Pearl, which I guess if we wanted to give context, if somebody doesn't know what I'm talking about. Palomino remade the Blackwing 602. And then before that had made a Palomino classic that was very soft. And then the 602, which was harder, and then the pearl kind of lands in the middle, so it's kind of a happy medium. So those two I gravitate towards. And I always love putting those behind my ear in school. Actually, for the first few weeks of school, when I'll have those in my pocket with a cap on it or behind my ear, my students will stare at it. And then finally, in every class, it's bound to happen. One of them will raise their hand and say, why do you have a paintbrush behind your ear? The field notes pencil. I love the Blackwing 602. The Ladee, a pencil I reviewed not too long ago. I guess it was a month ago, maybe month and a half that Johnny, you had recommended to me when I had reached out to you asking about that Ticonderoga round, the soft Ticonderoga that's not in production anymore, the 13882, I think it is round. And I was trying to find more, but they're not made. And so you'd recommended the Ladee. And I actually ordered a dozen of the Laddies while driving to Hilton Head to visit some family. On my phone. On my phone.
And you're still alive.
Yeah. And I made it. Made it to the house. And so that's. It's kind of a. I guess, would you call it a mini jumbo? I mean, it's kind of like a medium sized. It's somewhere between the, like my first Ticonderoga, that big kids pencil, and just the standard. But it's got a round barrel, which is a big deal for me. I love a round barrel. It's comfortable to hold, it doesn't dig into your hand after a long amount of time. And it also has the wider core, which makes it softer, which I really love. So that one, I use that one a lot. The Forest Choice was the first pencil I reviewed on my blog. And that was a pencil. It's very similar to the field notes, except it's hexagonal. But I love it for the feel and the usability of it, but also for kind of the idea of it that it's made from environmentally conscious practices. They use a renewable cedar recycled metal for the feral things like that that I just identify with. I really love that. So it's one that I really enjoy. And also I have a special attachment to that one. Thanks to Johnny's blog. Because I looked up the review on Pencil Revolution and saw that little button of Hemingway. I was like, I should probably just go ahead and order this pencil because I've been a big Hemingway fan. And then lastly, if I picked a fifth, the Musgrave Testing 100 is one that I've become kind of attached to that I did not expect. Once I got it, I found it through. I hope I don't get this wrong. Little Flower Petals. Is that the name of the blog? Little Flower Petals. Yeah. I stumbled across her blog. I don't know her name off the top of my head, but Elizabeth. Elizabeth.
Okay.
I found her blog. She had some post about her current carry, like what she was carrying as far as pencils go. And that was one that she said something along the lines of, if, if I become a eccentric writer and people want to know what I used, that's going to be the pencil that I'm associated with. And so I ordered some for my kind of first big order from pencils.com. that's where I got the Forest choice and the testing one Hundreds. And I can't remember. Oh, the Semihex General Semihex. So I got those three from them and I ended up really liking it. Similar to the Ladee, it has a slightly larger core and so it's a little softer, but the hexagonal shape is actually pretty sharp, which I didn't think I would like, but I ended up enjoying it. But it's, you know, it's a local for me. Center local. Made in Tennessee, which is not really my home per se, but it's become my home.
How far is Johnson City from. From Shelbyville?
Two and a half hours. About, I think something like that. Which the problem is that it's a direction I never go, so it's not something I'll just pass by. So it'll have to be a special trip, which will definitely happen.
That's awesome.
Yeah. The 602, the testing 100. Musgrave testing 100. The field notes pencil and the Forest choice would be kind of my current. The ones I grabbed the most, I guess.
That's awesome. I'm reading this, testing the scoring pencil right now. And the description. It features an electro graphite core that is specially designed to be picked up by test scanners. That's cool. We should try that out. Does anybody have access to, like a Scantron machine?
I might.
We can just start writing and see if there's any room for error in there.
There might be a couple around my parts.
That's cool. Well, I don't know. My top five. I was just kind of giving my top five on the Pentatic podcast, and I think it's even changed since then, so not even a week. And I know that the Golden Bear is by California Cedar. It's a Palomino brand now. The Golden Bear pencils is one of my very favorites. It's a really good price. It's a very solid performer. It's maybe not as solid as, like, a Palomino or a Blackwing, but it cost less than three bucks for a dozen of them. It's 225, I think, right now. And I still have. They don't make the triangular ones anymore, but I still have a. Just a bunch of those. They're really nice pencils, and I use that every day, really. The Blackwing 602, in this case, the Palomino Blackwing 602, because I don't use the. I have some Eberhard Faber ones, but I don't use those every day because they're super expensive. The Palomino Blackwing 602 is a really nice pencil. In fact, I'm using it now. Just really attractive. It's a conversation starter. People are like, what the heck is that? I like those a lot. A friend of mine who works at a winery in town actually showed her boss and they ended up buying a bunch of Palomino 602s and the Blackwing 602s in the Pearls for their winery. And it's something that disappears really fast out of their wineries. So they've eventually switched back to some plain old pencils I carry with me. I don't really have an everyday carry, a daily carry, if you will, because I don't like a lot of stuff on my pockets. But I do carry the Midori Bullet pencil with me every day. Bullet pencils are a whole nother show, but the Midori Bullet pencil is one that's still being made. It's a nice brass kind of. It looks like a bullet casing, and a pencil kind of sticks in the back of it, has an eraser on the end and a pocket clip. It's a really, really nice pencil holder, and it kind of folds up neatly into your pocket. I carry that with me along with field notebooks everywhere, just so I always have something to take notes with. And that's a really nice pencil.
That thing's been Sitting in my Jetpens cart for about four weeks now. Yeah, it's going to happen eventually.
I mean it is definitely like the nice thing about pencils are they're not super pricey. Like you know, a Blackwing, which is the most expensive really you can get there. Maybe not the most expensive, but one of the most. And that's still only 20 bucks a dozen. Which you know, compared to you know, multi thousand dollar pens out there or even like a seventy dollar pen, but, but definitely the Midori Bullet pencil. It's a 20. What is it, $21? Yeah, it's a $20 investment and it's, it's, you know, you get one little pencil with it, but it's, it's that holder you're paying for, of course. So yeah, it's refillable. So it is definitely something you have to think about compared to you know, like a golden bear or the test scoring pencils, which is like, oh, three bucks for a dozen. Heck yeah. So I also like the general semi hex pencil a lot. That is unlike Tim, I really like hexagonal pencils. I think it's nicer to kind of, to kind of grip it with that. I completely don't know if this makes a difference or if this is the reason, but I'm left handed and I just feel like it, you know, I can get a grip on it better. I'm sure it has nothing to do with that. But the semi hex is nice because you know, the, it's, it's a semi hex, meaning it has kind of the rounded corners on those edges and it's super comfortable. It's a really nice pencil and it is kind of your. You know, people think of the Ticonderoga when they think of like a classic yellow pencil. Think of the semi hex. It's a really nice just, you know, classic yellow pencil.
I love the box with the like covered wagon on it.
Yeah, yeah, that's cool. And then kind of the last on my list is a Helix Oxford, which is a UK brand. And I actually found out from Mike Hurley from the Pentatic that they make a really, really huge kind of ubiquitous line of office supplies, school supplies. Over there you can get a Helix protractor, you can get erasers, you can get pens, all sorts of things over there, like the Mead of Great Britain, I'm guessing. That's what I'm thinking. And so I guess one thing we never clarified is this our top five favorite pencils to use or our top five favorite pencils. In general, because I do really, really love a Yeikes pencil.
I got a couple of Chicago Cubs pencils that I really attach to.
Yeah, Yeah. A Yikes pencil is a brand that was made in the 90s by Berol. And they're very brightly colored. They don't perform super great, but they just remind me of my youth because they're in those kind of, like, bright 90s colors. So when you're, you know, when you're between the ages of, like, say, 8 and 12 or even older, I don't know, you're just really, really attached to them. So I can find them on ebay. And actually, apparently I was the first person on the Internet to review them, apparently. And now when people around my age are googling them, they run across my blog. And so that is probably the top contributor of traffic to my blog is my review of the Yikes pencils.
And I just did. I just Googled it, and there it is.
I think the YouTube commercial for yikes comes up before mine.
Yeah.
Yeah. Apparently, I found out from Mike Hurley that in England, they sold a fountain pen. And I am consumed with having to find one of these.
Now. The name of it is one of the greatest things.
Yeah.
The fountain of all knowledge is what it's called.
Yeah. Fountain pen of all knowledge.
It's amazing. He actually found an ebay auction that. I don't think it's ended yet, but by the time this airs, it will have ended. And I think, fingers crossed, he actually got it. So we'll see. We'll see how that goes.
So.
So, Johnny, what. What. What are your top five favorite, favorite pencils? Just in general?
Well, I'm very attracted to general's pencil company just because they're American and they're all cedar and they're so pretty, but they're really cool, like, retro graphics. So one that is always in. Whatever I carry with me is the layout pencil.
Mm.
Which is. It's sort of like a. It's almost halfway between a carbon pencil and a graphite pencil. It's kind of chalky, but it doesn't smear. It's very dark. And Abraham from La Vie graphite, if I'm pronouncing that right, he's the one that recommended them as, like, the best pen to write on right in the rain paper. And he's totally right. It looks like a marker and it won't smear. It's great. That's cool. But that pencil, especially because they're. They're round and they don't have Anything on them? I always have a blue palomino with no eraser, but Charles told me they're not going to make them anymore, so I'm, like, devastated, and I'm not going to carry them with me anymore.
Can you get a gross of them on online still?
Yes. I put a request in with my wife for my birthday in August to get an early present because the gross of them will last forever if I take care.
Yeah.
That's what I did with the triangular golden bears since I got a gross. Yeah, the triangular ones. Yeah. So I'm sorry. Go on.
I also always have a cedar point because, like, Tim, I have really sweaty hands and the unfinished nature is really good, and they smell, like, incredible. So if I'm bored, let's kind of pull it out and sniff it. People look funny. Whatever. And I always have something German on me because my name's German and I really like German pencils. So usually there's like a Staedtler Mars or I've really gotten into a Norris since I've got a nice stash of them. Something German.
Something German on me.
How many is that? Four. You got four Fat Dixon pencils. I'm, like, seriously in love with fat Dixon pencils. When I was an AmeriCorps VISTA, whenever I had to go to community meetings, I'd have to write really fast while people were talking. So I just get a really big piece of paper and one of those, and it's like, crazy block letters and
get it all down.
They're great. Plus, like, if you ever have a pencil fight with one of those, you're totally gonna win.
So quick. Quick side. Do you guys. Do you guys know about pencil fights?
Yes.
Okay.
I was really good at pencil fights, I'm ashamed to say.
For a long time, I've just felt like the only person in the world who knew about this. And I actually blogged about that and got a couple people talking about it. We actually call it the game of pencils. And, like, you know, let's play pencils. That's kind of what it was. And if, for those who don't know, you take. Basically take a. You know, you take a pencil, two people. One person holds it in both hands, kind of horizontal to the ground, parallel to the ground, and the other person takes their pencil and just like, flings it really hard at the pencil that's being held out. So whoever. Whoever breaks the pencil, the opponent's pencil first is the one who is victorious. And I actually just found out, you know, hen from red and Hungry. She lives in Seattle and they have a pencil fighting league there. It's kind of amazing. I've seen pictures on her Instagram. I think it may even be the rat in Hungry Instagram. But if I ever go to Seattle, I really, really need to go to a pencil fighting game. In fact, they have people dress in costumes and there's people. Like the Taikana robot is one of the. One of the. It's a robot with like in. In yellow and has a bigger. It's. Yeah. I'll have to find some of these pictures and post them. It's.
They're really amazing.
Sorry, that was. That was a Pete. Absolutely.
Yeah.
I see. I don't know if you can bring your own pencil or if they provide like a standard.
I definitely wouldn't bring my own pencil.
Well, yeah, but not, you know, a really nice one. Yeah. So. Yeah. So, Johnny, you like the. You like the fat Dixon pencils? What do you think? What do you think about the Triconda Ruga?
I've never had one that I could sharpen very well. The leads are really off center. Yeah.
Actually really pretty.
And I want to like it, but no.
Yeah, it feels nice. I love holding it, riding with it. Like just because it has that sort of rubbery, grippy feeling to it. That is awesome. But it's a little bit. A little bit bigger. So it kind of fits my criteria to an extent. But I have the same issues. The sharpeners I have end up cracking the lid off.
I actually have a KUM special diameter sharpener that will sharpen kind of bigger ones and also triangular ones a little bit better. I think it just has a little bit. It has two holes in. It has one regular size and one large size. And I think it has just a little bit extra, like, stabilizing in it. I think when you stick it in, it has like an extra area to kind of keep it hold in place. And it's kind of just a short to medium tip and it, you know, but it does pretty well. It's better than that sharpener that comes with it.
Yeah.
And I definitely like. I like those pencils, but I've never had one where I've used it up all the way and the ferrule continues to stay on. They're glued in place rather than clinched, so they always fall off. And actually I said something on Twitter about that and I got an email from the customer service people at Ticonderoga just asking me about it. So I talked to him a little bit about it. But yeah, it's definitely a problem that I've had. But yeah. So here's something I think kind of the next question we should talk about. Where do you go to find decent pencils? Do you go, you know, do you go to Office Max? Do you go to Office Depot? Do you go to, you know, somewhere online? Kind of. Where's your spots? I guess I can probably start this off. I actually used to work for pencils.com very briefly in 2011 and I just kind of have a soft spot for them. So the first thing, the first thing I'll ever try is going to pencils.com and seeing if they have it. But honestly, like, if I'm looking for just a, you know, just like a big box store kind of a pencil. Staples has a pretty decent selection. They have a few different Staedtlers and actually, Johnny, what do you say? Did you say Shtetler?
I always thought it was Staedtler.
Staedtler. I'm gonna, I'll go ahead.
My German is very, very, very rusty.
I'm going to use the rude American way and say Statler. Yeah, they have a, they have a decent selection. If you're looking for something that's just very accessible. Yeah, Johnny, where do you. Sorry.
Go on. Oh, they're, they're, they're Norikos are on
sale right now that Staples.
A plug for more. Yeah, more plug for staples. They're like $6 for three dozen, which is ridiculous.
Oh, wow, that is really good. Yeah.
Stock up.
Where else do you go, Jenny?
I usually find myself in art shops because central Baltimore is where the world famous Maryland Institute is and we've got an Utrecht and a Plaza and an Arts and Craftsman supplies and a lot of it's like open stock stuff so you can check out what you like. And then usually if I find something I like, I'll go on the Internet and like, you know, totally hoard a couple dozen away in case they stop making them. Yeah.
Yeah. I think out of all of us, you probably have the best access to going somewhere and getting pencils.
Yeah. Baltimore is awesome. Yeah.
Here in Fort Wayne, I mean, we have some art shops, but nothing like an Utrecht or a, like a blick or something like that.
Yeah, we don't have a blick yet. But like, I'm crossing my fingers. Yeah. What's your favorite first year city? Yeah.
What's your favorite E commerce place to get pencils?
Probably a tie between Amazon and pencils.com. that's cool because I have Amazon prime. So like everyone else in the world. Like, yeah, it's here in two days for free. But some of the pencil prices are weird. Like, why is it $10 for dick shipping?
Yeah. $5 for the pencils and $15 for the shipping.
Yeah. Pencils.com last week I ordered those palominos for like a $70. And I had them in two days. Yeah, totally across the country and we had a snowstorm.
Yeah, they're great. Yeah. Tim, where do you find.
Where's your.
Where do you find your stash?
Similar to Johnny, the majority of the time it's a combination of pencils.com and Amazon. Those are kind of where I gravitate towards because in East Tennessee there aren't really many options other than that. So I don't have many kind of brick and mortar places to go to. So there used to be this little art shop called Artopia that sadly is not there anymore. So that was kind of my one place to go. Check. Now the closest place I have to that is a Michaels, which is actually. Which I've been able to get. I found cedar points there. I found the Faber Castell grips there, and the layout pencils as well, the General. General's layout. So I found some great stuff there. So that's really my best place in person
in Baltimore. But there's another chain called Hobby Lobby. I don't know if they have.
No, we have those up here. Yeah, that's why I live in Southern Illinois.
They've got a lot of generals, which is super awesome.
Yeah, that's. We have one of those close by that I actually haven't checked recently because it's about maybe 30 minutes away. So I don't really make it over that direction very much. But.
Plus, Hobby Lobby's the worst. Hopefully they'll never try to be a sponsor of the show, but they just have a bunch of just cheap crap there.
And there's four people who work there.
Yeah.
And that means, like, for every shift. So there's like one person of each shift. But yeah, I really hope they don't try to sponsor. But
I think we've taken care of that.
But besides that, I find myself roaming, which I'm sure both of you do. Just kind of grocery stores, Walmart, Staples, Office Max, places like that, where I just kind of can't help but walk through the aisle and I'll find things now and then that I can't believe that I've been able to find that'll show up for a week. And then when the stock's gone, they'll just disappear, things like that. But yeah, that's really it, I guess is Michaels and then. Well, actually I should mention Jetpens. I've been really excited lately that Jetpens is a great place. Jetpens.com is a great place to go for single pencils. They have like the Mitsubishi high Uni pencil, which I've never, never tried but always wanted to. One really awesome thing about Jetpens is that you can buy them one pencil at a time for the equivalent price that you would pay for a dozen. So like a dozen is $28. And to buy a single one, it's roughly 1/12 of that, I guess.
That's cool. That's a great idea.
Roughly.
Jetpens is great. Yeah. That's where I got my trio graphs.
Yeah. So that's like the high unique one to look into those as well as the Mitsubishi 9850 and then a Tombow 2558 I think it was. Those are all ones that I'm kind of wanting to get from there eventually.
That's cool.
But you can buy them single, which is great for. It's like, I think It's a. It's 225 or 235A pencil for the high uni and a dollar for the 9850.
The 9850 is a really nice pencil, especially for the price.
Yeah, a dollar a piece comes with an eraser.
So we kind of skirted around this issue. We've talked about how, you know, good pencils are way, way better than a bad pencil. And a lot of people don't realize that just because pencils have been so commoditized over the years. I'd be interested to know, Johnny, kind of what do you think makes up a good pencil, like characteristics of a good pencil?
First, well centered lead. Because, you know, when you basically sharpen it all the way down and still just a spear that doesn't write, that's. That's just terrible. And I'm a sucker for pink erasers, which has nothing to do with quality but just aesthetics. But I think a well centered lead, I'd say cedar, but there are a lot of really nice pencils that aren't cedar. Like Wopex and fiber, a lot of Faber Castell stuff that they make out of pine. But also like, you know, you look at the imprint and see, you know, what sort of care they put on their pencils and how much they care about that pencil representing their brand. And I guess how well the ferrule is attached. I hate when they clinch it and then the paint chips come up.
Yeah.
Makes me ballistic.
Yeah.
I'm so mad.
Throw that on the wall.
A lot of it is its appearance, but you know that once you write with it, I like something that's nice and smooth and a little dark. I'm like a B, 2B kind of guy. Yeah, I think that's it.
Yeah.
Cool. Tim, what's your favorite characteristics of a good pencil?
Similar to Johnny B to 2B is kind of my sweet spot. Some HB is great. You know, some of them that are a little darker because I like. I like it to be dark. I'm okay with the scratch a little bit, but my kind of weird thing about that is that I. I'm fine with hearing the scratch. I just don't want to feel it.
Yeah.
So I love the sound of it, but I don't like to feel it. So in general, it's. I like a round pencil, which I mentioned earlier. I like a round one just because it's comfortable in the hand. And, you know, as you write, you know how you find yourself rotating the pencil slightly as you go as one side wears down. When I have a round pencil, I can rotate it at a really small rate instead of the hexagonal, where it's.
Yeah, 1/6.
Big switch. Yeah, big switch. So I like the round one because it's just. I don't have to sharpen as often because I can just slightly adjust as I go. So I like that do. Like I mentioned that I like B and 2B. I like a little bit of a softer pencil so that usually I gravitate towards pencils with a little bit wider of a core because it gets a softer feel to it. So the ladee. The testing 100. I really enjoy pencils like that.
You should. You should try out this trio graph. It has a really thick core, which is really nice. And I mean, if you can figure out how to sharpen it, more power to you. I could not without just using a knife or something. But, yeah, it has that really, really thick core.
Yeah. Yeah, I'll definitely try those out. Yeah, that's. I guess that's it. Just kind of the round, round barrel. Yeah. Soft, softish lead. But I write for long periods of time, usually when I use them, and so I don't like to have to sharpen them every two minutes. So it does need to be a little on the hard side, just so.
Yeah.
Just for durability sake.
So. Yeah.
So you guys have talked a lot about you know, some of the characteristics that I would like, usually relating to performance. So I guess I'll talk about some of the aesthetic reasons why I like some pencils. What really draws me. Get it? Draws me. Yeah, bad pun.
Awful pun.
So I really, I mean, I like, I like yellow pencils, but I really like ones that go out of their way not to be yellow. Lot of the, like the, for example, the Mars Lumograph has that, you know, just gorgeous kind of blue and dark gray or black or something colors. I really, really like the, the blue golden bears that are that, like that really kind of rich, creamy blue. And then that, that orange eraser. It's definitely not a pink eraser, but it still works pretty well. And just pencils that have some color to them. I have a big collection of just old pencils, old branded pencils, and they just, there's all sorts of colors. They're just beautiful. So I like ones that do that. Ones that have like a nice thick lacquer on the barrel. I mean, I like the natural finish as well, but I do like me just a thick pencil lacquer. I really, really hate, as I'm sure you guys do, of those, those foil wrapped pencils. You know, the kind you get like Target for, you know, a dollar. And it has like the, like the Sprite branded pencils, for example, where you sharpen it and that plastic clear foil just starts to sharpen off. I just, I just got, I hate those. They make me, people get them for me because they're like, oh, Andy likes pencils. Let's get him some of these. They're cheap.
Yeah.
So those foil wrap pencils just really just get my goat because it's, it's, it just feels like the pencil manufacturers aren't even trying. You know, they're not silk screening it. They're not. You know, I like a pencil with a design as much as everybody, but you know, those, those foil wrapped ones. I don't know, it feels really lazy to me.
Have you tried those Ticonderoga Noir pencils?
The, the black Ticonderogas?
Yeah. The wood is black, but they have some sort of like iridescent finish to them.
Oh yeah, like the silver one ones?
Yeah. I don't want to admit to owning them and liking them very much. Yeah, the foil on them doesn't come off and it's sort of got a nice like kind of grippy texture. Huh. So we joke that they're a fairy pencil. So my daughter's really into fairies.
No, I, I've I've definitely seen them, but I guess I've never picked one.
I'll.
I'll check that out.
Yeah, they're not bad. Yeah. You know, I don't write with them in public or anything.
Right. They're your guilty pleasure pencil.
My usual, like, appearances.
That's a. That's a good future. Future topic. Our guilty pencil. Our guilty pleasure pencils.
Wearing, like, shiny pants or something.
Yeah, disco. Disco pencils. So. So, yeah, that. That's. That's really about all I had. I think, that we covered. We got a lot of ground covered today. Does anybody. Does any. Anybody have anything else they wanted to add before we do? A couple little, like, you know, laundry. Laundry list things.
I mean, I was just thinking that big picture, next episode or episodes from here on out, we'll get into some of the more specifics. Yeah, it was a nice general hitting the basics kind of thing, talking about us, where we come from, which is great. I think maybe from here on out we're going to start getting into some more specific subjects where we really dive deep into some stuff. Yeah, we really nerd out on some stuff, like. Similar to the pen ad, if they had a glossary episode. So we might take an episode where we talk about what are some of the terms that we're going to be using all the time, just to kind of get those out the way for people who don't, you know, feral. Who don't know that term. I didn't know that term until four months ago or something like that. So that'll definitely be something that happens. So I just wanted to mention that. So if anybody has felt a little, I guess, behind or something, if we didn't do a good job of sounding accessible and explaining things in a way that somebody who's not as deeply into pencils as we are, if we didn't do a great job with that, we are going to get into things a little more specifically and talk about terms and take it step by step and just enjoy ourselves as we do it. Because, I mean, this is something that we all love to nerd out on. So it's going to be. It's going to be a lot of fun. I'm really excited to talk about this kind of stuff more.
Absolutely. So I just kind of. On that topic, I'd love to see more of. I'd like to hear from the audience. I guess I make an assumption that we will have an audience, but I think it's. I think it's a good assumption. I think that we'll have People who just kind of want to hear what we have to say. So I would really love to know what you guys would like to see us talk about or review. Chances are between our three blogs there is a product that we have reviewed or at least talked about. But if that's something that you would like that person to come on air and talk about, or if there's something that is new and none of us have yet covered, we would completely and absolutely love to talk about that. So I know we have a brand new spanking email address. Tim, what is that email address?
We are at Erasable. Actually, let me double check this out. If I put the in there, it's erasablepodcastmail.com so that's erasable. E R A S A b l e podcastmail.com and you can also follow us at Twitter. We have a new Twitter account, raceablepodcast. Same thing. So erasablepodcast on Twitter or erasablepodcastmail.com if you want to contact us via email.
That makes sense. And at the end of it, we'll give our kind of personal, personal accounts. So you can go follow us or talk to us there. But before we do, this is a completely brand new podcast. It's something that we're still figuring out the format for, for how often we want to do it, how long we want to do it. But we would love to host any advertisers, people who would like to reach a lot of very thoughtful pen and pencil people, specifically pencil people. So if anybody is interested in sponsoring this podcast, please drop us a line and we can talk about this and figure it out. So I guess we can probably close the show now. Johnny, where can people find you on the Internet?
Pencil revolution dot com.
Oh, and I guess I should ask, are you a card carrying member of the Communist party?
No, not card carrying. Okay. Much more careful than that.
I feel like they wouldn't have cards anyways.
Right?
You write on that card in pencils so you can erase it if you need to.
It's a secret tattoo that consists of a graphite pencil point stuck under the skin and then broken off.
I have your watch. I have one of those. That's awesome.
I really have one.
I have one in my leg where I accidentally jammed one of those crappy pencils with the, you know, the points that you, you take out and put in the back. Oh yeah, I have one of those leads in my leg.
I still make those. Yeah.
Tim, you're next.
Yeah, you can follow me a few different.
Oh no, I'm sorry, you're next with the pencil in your leg.
I'll see if I can get a student to do it for me.
Okay, so you get a really sharp one from David Rees. So that doesn't cause you any severe headache.
Yeah, yeah.
It'll be like in Fight Club where you have to burn your hand with the lye.
Yeah. No triangular pencils, like those triangular knives that, like, the wound never heals or whatever.
I'm sorry, Johnny, I completely interrupted your
contact us@pencilrevolution.com on Twitter. I think it's pencilution. P N C I lution. Pencil Revolution was too long. I'm on instagram @johnnygamber. One word and I think that's it. My email is editorencelrevolution.com Pretty cool. Which I check every day.
Awesome, Tim.
Finally you can follow me on Twitter ailycarry. That's DailyCarry. And then I have a. I'm also on Instagram. My Instagram address is the Daily Carry. Somebody is sitting on the Daily Carry on Twitter. So it's aily underscore carry on Twitter and hedaily carry on Instagram. My website is www.thedailycarry.com. wait, is it actually dailycarry.com and. And you can contact me@thedailycarrymail.com I check that every day as well.
Very cool. Well, I am Andy Welfle. I on Twitter at awelfley. That's awel F as in Frank L E. I do not have wood clinched on Twitter because somebody has it and never uses it. So if for some reason this guy in the Philippines is listening to this podcast, I'd like to talk. So, yeah, awelfley on Twitter. And I'm going to be kind of a nerd here and tell everybody that I'm also on app.net which is I'm Andy wpp.net and then you can get me at woodclinched.com or email me at andyoodclinched.com it's all one word. So, any closing remarks, gentlemen?
I feel like we should make a pun on farewell and say ferule.
Ferule.
Ferule.
Everyone, please don't erase us from your podcast feed, even though we are the erasable podcast. Keep on penciling, everybody.